xAP Talk Transcript 2007 01 02
02/01/2007 14:59:52 * James joins My room
02/01/2007 14:59:52 * quit (timeout)
02/01/2007 15:04:54 ‹James› .
02/01/2007 15:19:47 ‹James› .
02/01/2007 15:36:12 ‹James› .
02/01/2007 15:46:58 ‹James› .
02/01/2007 15:47:52 * Frostie joins My room
02/01/2007 15:48:19 ‹James› hi
02/01/2007 15:48:46 ‹Frostie› hi
02/01/2007 15:49:58 ‹Frostie› just thought id see what was going on 2nite....
02/01/2007 15:50:00 ‹James› 'fraid i havn't had a chance to go over the jabber code
02/01/2007 15:50:27 ‹James› it a quiet quiet night. I think everyone is still recovering from the weekend
02/01/2007 15:50:43 ‹Frostie› no worries... this is the first time i've really picked up the laptop since before christmas...
02/01/2007 15:51:48 ‹James› i'll feel honoured that you arrived here then ;-). Hope you had a good rest then?
02/01/2007 15:52:50 ‹Frostie› not really :) it was my sons 8th birthday and we've been rushing around building him a tardis out of a shed and a darlek out ouf a compost bin...
02/01/2007 15:53:31 ‹James› a very lucky kid then. or are they really for you ;-)
02/01/2007 15:54:50 ‹Frostie› lol after the 5th or 6th time of "going to another time" all i wanted to do was stick to good old 1985
02/01/2007 15:56:57 ‹James› i guess it could of been worse.
02/01/2007 15:58:31 ‹James› a dalek is at least a fairly simple monster to make!
02/01/2007 15:58:49 ‹James› So how long are you keeping the shed blue witha flashing light on top
02/01/2007 16:02:39 ‹Frostie› ahh the light only flashes when the lights inside are switced on.. I did consider putting it on the PIR that turns on the external light, but didn't think the neighbours would appreciate it....
02/01/2007 16:03:58 ‹Frostie› the darlek we found on the blue peter website... was fairly straight forward although the polystyrene balls were a pig to stick
02/01/2007 16:04:37 ‹James› are there pictures of it on the web somewhere?
02/01/2007 16:06:05 * KevinH joins My room
02/01/2007 16:06:16 ‹Frostie› they will be soon... another quick job for tonight...
02/01/2007 16:06:40 ‹James› cool
02/01/2007 16:06:44 ‹James› Hi K
02/01/2007 16:07:11 ‹Frostie› they will be here http://www.neilfrost.com/blog/?page_id=11
02/01/2007 16:07:20 ‹KevinH› Happy New Year both...
02/01/2007 16:08:01 ‹James› and to you
02/01/2007 16:08:04 ‹Frostie› Thanks, and to you...
02/01/2007 16:08:54 ‹James› I'm guessing your blog is quite new then
02/01/2007 16:09:15 ‹KevinH› ... (from the dialog above) ... I guess you're not too fazed about New Years any more ;-)
02/01/2007 16:11:15 ‹James› Anyone that has their own Dalek can't be fazed
02/01/2007 16:11:22 ‹KevinH› I'm just catching up witha few bits and then have to go and collect my sister from a rather belated Xmas works party - well meal out
02/01/2007 16:11:33 ‹Frostie› yes blog is very new... i use 1and1 to host and found out how to install wordpress
02/01/2007 16:13:22 ‹KevinH› I must invest in an internet 'place' sometime :$
02/01/2007 16:13:44 ‹James› indeed:-P
02/01/2007 16:14:24 ‹KevinH› My overflow error has resurfaced too :-(
02/01/2007 16:14:38 ‹Frostie› i find 1and1 very good, it's not cheap... but you get wotu pay for...
02/01/2007 16:15:01 ‹KevinH› xAP's free :-S
02/01/2007 16:15:26 ‹Frostie› lol v tru....
02/01/2007 16:16:21 ‹KevinH› .. so I suppose you could say 'priceless'
02/01/2007 16:16:27 ‹James› so did you get a clue as to the overflow cause
02/01/2007 16:17:19 ‹KevinH› The debugger gives me a line number and an array bounds error but if I print the bounds value on the line immediately before it's within its limits
02/01/2007 16:17:39 ‹James› would whitespace be shown?
02/01/2007 16:18:08 ‹KevinH› so the error message isnt related to that ... it's probably a stack corruption or earlier string mishap
02/01/2007 16:18:34 ‹KevinH› C types are heavily enforced so it can't be a string
02/01/2007 16:19:07 ‹James› at least you know it's before that point in the code, narrows it down a little
02/01/2007 16:19:56 ‹KevinH› The code runs for around a day without crashing - and that line of code is executed every 20 secs or so ...
02/01/2007 16:20:22 ‹KevinH› so it's a pain to debug
02/01/2007 16:20:40 ‹KevinH› I need to work out how to do stack traces
02/01/2007 16:21:06 ‹KevinH› I can't find anything that causes the bug to appear unfortunately
02/01/2007 16:21:36 ‹James› could it jsut be some random crap data being received
02/01/2007 16:21:37 ‹Frostie› i'm off to sort out some photos... don't forget to check out the pics... ;)
02/01/2007 16:21:54 ‹KevinH› I'll take a peek later... Dr...
02/01/2007 16:21:57 ‹James› i'll take a look later
02/01/2007 16:22:19 ‹Frostie› byee
02/01/2007 16:22:45 ‹James› bye
02/01/2007 16:23:21 * Frostie quit (timeout)
02/01/2007 16:23:51 ‹KevinH› FP has been very solid for me... btw
02/01/2007 16:24:28 ‹James› I've been doing lots with it at the moment
02/01/2007 16:24:52 ‹James› It now has the concept of rooms
02/01/2007 16:25:06 ‹KevinH› each room has a tab ?
02/01/2007 16:26:38 ‹James› It's more of a processing thing. You assign devices to a room. You also say if a device is a PIR, a Light, a temp sensor. Then xFP has the info to do occupancy detection ect
02/01/2007 16:27:22 ‹KevinH› ok
02/01/2007 16:27:48 ‹KevinH› and so you can turn all lights on in a room for example I guess
02/01/2007 16:27:51 ‹James› it's the last piece of Bob tech!
02/01/2007 16:27:57 ‹James› yep
02/01/2007 16:27:57 ‹KevinH› and ask Four abouta room
02/01/2007 16:28:08 ‹James› yep
02/01/2007 16:30:19 ‹KevinH› Are devices in one room ony then ? or can you have areas like 'upstairs' - was just thinking how this might fit in with the address hierarchy and also groups
02/01/2007 16:30:25 ‹James› all coming about as i've finally linked some PIRs to my netiom
02/01/2007 16:30:44 ‹James› a device can be in any number of rooms
02/01/2007 16:30:56 ‹KevinH› and is the reaction time good ?
02/01/2007 16:31:08 ‹James› and each room has a floor setting
02/01/2007 16:31:17 ‹James› the pir's are fine. x10 isn't
02/01/2007 16:31:30 ‹KevinH› ahh yes - forgot about that
02/01/2007 16:32:02 ‹KevinH› X10 is becominga memory here - but i do have some still on things like my outside lights that are hard to get to
02/01/2007 16:32:46 ‹James› lucky you
02/01/2007 16:33:04 ‹James› and your only saying that as you finally got all your cbus installed ;-)
02/01/2007 16:33:31 ‹KevinH› just reading your Slimserver response on xAPAuto - does the current version still require a targeted message or did E fix that..
02/01/2007 16:33:51 ‹KevinH› I've still a load to do ....hmmm
02/01/2007 16:34:05 ‹James› i'm sure he fixed that
02/01/2007 16:34:12 ‹KevinH› I think so to..
02/01/2007 16:36:46 ‹KevinH› Do you still have intentions on a state driven event system for FP eventually ?
02/01/2007 16:37:20 ‹KevinH› The thing that avoids having to constantly check things in a loop ?
02/01/2007 16:37:25 ‹James› yep
02/01/2007 16:38:09 ‹KevinH› :-)
02/01/2007 16:38:19 ‹James› with your suggest on the trigger value, that i'm trying to remember how it worked
02/01/2007 16:38:38 ‹KevinH› It's not something I'm pushing for btw but it would be useful...
02/01/2007 16:39:31 ‹James› i can see the use though
02/01/2007 16:39:47 ‹KevinH› Instead of havinga loop checking if A nd B and C and D are in a state you have trigger values that are updated when any member changes state (ie after perhpas a xAP message from A B C or D)..
02/01/2007 16:40:10 ‹KevinH› and then a amcro that runs when triggerX is fired
02/01/2007 16:40:33 ‹KevinH› so you don't have any need to loop and check mutiple If's anymore
02/01/2007 16:41:25 ‹KevinH› .. and I guess in your ap there is a good place to be 'informed' if any individual device or variable changes state
02/01/2007 16:41:47 ‹KevinH› time is a slightly more demanding one of course
02/01/2007 16:42:19 ‹James› i'm still thinking on how it will fit together but i'll get there!
02/01/2007 16:43:19 ‹KevinH› I must admit though teh C-Bus HV code is all 'event' driven with pseudo concurrent processes but it makes it very difficult to trace code and know what causes a particular crash
02/01/2007 16:43:31 ‹James› yahoo is getting very annoying btw. I been bounced every could of days. and messages are taking ages to get sent to me
02/01/2007 16:44:54 ‹KevinH› some of my processes 'suspend' themselves whilst waiting for something else to happen which means I have to be careful with values changing ... but thats not what is causing my current bug ( at least I think its not)
02/01/2007 16:45:18 ‹KevinH› Yahoo is OK for me re bounces - haven't been baounced once in 18 montsh but delays are awful
02/01/2007 16:46:48 ‹KevinH› It continually bounces me if I use my ISP's 'Spam' filter as they hardbounce any suspected Spam messages back to the sender (ie Yahoo) who immediately suspend my account
02/01/2007 16:48:09 ‹KevinH› The delays mean I see replies way before the originals very frequently
02/01/2007 16:48:26 ‹James› i think thats what happens to me. I've switched ukha to daily digest. hopefully that will help
02/01/2007 16:48:29 ‹KevinH› so it's not just a Yahoo time to process thing
02/01/2007 16:48:46 ‹James› I havn't received any of the messages i sent today
02/01/2007 16:49:46 ‹KevinH› I turned off Spam filtering and one of my ISP's allows a [SPAM] header to be added which I filter. The other I just never read as its not an address I use apart from Yahoo which I pull out
02/01/2007 16:49:57 ‹KevinH› I can see teh three you posted
02/01/2007 16:50:13 ‹KevinH› xAPTalk X2 and Slim
02/01/2007 16:50:23 * lehane joins My room
02/01/2007 16:50:40 ‹KevinH› Hi Lehane... HNY
02/01/2007 16:50:42 ‹lehane› evening and Happy New Year!
02/01/2007 16:50:49 ‹James› hny too
02/01/2007 16:51:05 ‹KevinH› You're getting here just as I have to leave and go pick up my sister ....
02/01/2007 16:51:33 ‹KevinH› Who's on a late Xmas party/meal
02/01/2007 16:51:34 ‹lehane› OK, catch you next week I hope
02/01/2007 16:52:07 ‹KevinH› Next week should be fine..
02/01/2007 16:52:43 ‹James› L, I didn't mention in the email the config/room tab won't do much!
02/01/2007 16:53:13 ‹James› so it's Kevin cabs to teh rescue again
02/01/2007 16:53:58 ‹KevinH› Yep - I benefit a lot the other way around too
02/01/2007 16:54:10 ‹James› that's ok then!
02/01/2007 16:54:13 ‹lehane› J - OK, I just got around to the mails and saw the new version - I'll load it tomorrow and try the empty DB - BTW is there any DB truncation?
02/01/2007 16:54:17 ‹KevinH› but she's moving soon so that'll be a thing of teh past
02/01/2007 16:54:42 ‹lehane› Mmm, for us it's usually the teenagers and parties at the moment
02/01/2007 16:54:45 ‹James› or just a longer cab journey
02/01/2007 16:55:39 ‹James› xFP does a db compaction at startup. I'm tweaking it to do some overnight tasks
02/01/2007 16:55:55 ‹James› also to make it odbc able
02/01/2007 16:56:17 ‹James› oh, do you access the db from anything other that FP?
02/01/2007 16:56:41 ‹lehane› it would be nice to use mysql or, if you must, MSDE/Pers. SQL 2005
02/01/2007 16:57:16 ‹James› mysql would be the first choice
02/01/2007 16:57:55 ‹lehane› yes. I use access to load some of the DB Globals - but a one shot thing.
02/01/2007 16:58:42 ‹James› the table names have been prefixed by xAP_Floorplan_ so your access may need a tweak
02/01/2007 16:58:53 ‹James› columns are the same though
02/01/2007 16:59:30 ‹lehane› OK, not a big problem. How big has your DB got?
02/01/2007 16:59:55 ‹James› only about 5mb, but i havn't got many devices set to log
02/01/2007 17:01:08 ‹lehane› Yes, I should probably turn off logging on most of them. The LOG tab only works about 1 in 10 times due to size.
02/01/2007 17:01:44 ‹James› are you running the latest intranet ocx?
02/01/2007 17:02:12 ‹KevinH› just telephoned - got 5 mins reprieve...
02/01/2007 17:02:53 ‹lehane› :$ not on the new machine
02/01/2007 17:03:06 ‹James› that will fix that log screen
02/01/2007 17:03:22 ‹James› also you will have to have the new ocx for that FP exe to work
02/01/2007 17:03:34 ‹KevinH› J - did you have any thoughts about why I'm getting 'undefined' showing up against a previously OK device ?
02/01/2007 17:04:27 ‹James› i'm chasing that bug, just checking when i've seen it the device cycles every couple of seconds from the globel to undefined then back again
02/01/2007 17:04:43 ‹KevinH› Ahh OK - as long as its not me..
02/01/2007 17:05:41 ‹KevinH› it is cycling every couple of secs - and the device isnt changing state (as you say)
02/01/2007 17:05:46 ‹James› I have a variable that the ajax presents to xFP when asking for new data, that variable is changed only if a device updates. somehow that get lost
02/01/2007 17:06:26 ‹James› its a firefox extension called firebug.. so so udeful
02/01/2007 17:06:37 ‹James› useful
02/01/2007 17:08:56 ‹KevinH› I just upgraded another app to the new V4 release... and it wont work.. so I looked on their support forum....
02/01/2007 17:09:00 ‹James› back in one sec
02/01/2007 17:10:12 ‹KevinH› Wont work with IE7 or WMP11 and some other combinations of latest Mst updates... suggested fixes ... dont upgrade to V4 and continue using V3.1...
02/01/2007 17:10:33 ‹KevinH› So how do I go back to V3.1... ahh sorry you can't
02/01/2007 17:11:54 ‹James› v3.1 of what. windows?
02/01/2007 17:11:56 ‹KevinH› You can't uninstall and re-install earlier version as this is a music service app and once you log on using V4 you must continue with that as our servers now match teh client.... amazing
02/01/2007 17:12:20 ‹KevinH› Rhapsody (the music service) - like Napster
02/01/2007 17:12:51 ‹KevinH› duh !
02/01/2007 17:13:01 ‹James› i thought your slimserver was full enough as it was
02/01/2007 17:13:56 ‹KevinH› I use Rhapsody a lot as I can select anything on demand and its much faster than slimserver - even via an Ajax interface.... but I'm now curtailed for a while...
02/01/2007 17:14:16 ‹KevinH› Sonos supports Rhapsody too
02/01/2007 17:14:27 ‹James› too many toys
02/01/2007 17:14:32 ‹lehane› OCX fixes the log. The new exe dies instantly without starting though.
02/01/2007 17:14:57 ‹KevinH› Eventually i can see that no-one will have their own libraries and everyone will stream on demand...
02/01/2007 17:15:13 ‹KevinH› Ok must go - leave you to it....
02/01/2007 17:15:30 ‹KevinH› (still got those Ping issues btw J)... bye
02/01/2007 17:15:30 ‹lehane› 'night
02/01/2007 17:15:29 ‹James› bfn
02/01/2007 17:15:36 ‹KevinH› night both
02/01/2007 17:16:23 ‹James› It's probably the dll used to compact the db. do you have c:\program files\common files\system\ado\msjro.dll?
02/01/2007 17:17:34 ‹lehane› yes version 2.82.1830.0
02/01/2007 17:18:25 ‹James› in the programfiles\xapfloorplan did it create store_backup.mdb?
02/01/2007 17:20:06 ‹lehane› No, just tried it again
02/01/2007 17:21:01 ‹lehane› was running .202 version previously
02/01/2007 17:22:56 ‹James› could you try renaming the \inserts\ folder to something else. then re-run the exe and see if it recreats the folder?
02/01/2007 17:23:56 ‹James› this is all a bit odd as there are no reall changes to requirements, just more internals
02/01/2007 17:24:07 ‹lehane› It didn't. It dies very quickly after start.
02/01/2007 17:24:33 ‹lehane› version shown as .216
02/01/2007 17:24:36 ‹James› hmm. i checks that folder before it even starts up the databases
02/01/2007 17:25:55 ‹lehane› size is shown as (1,298,432 bytes
02/01/2007 17:26:38 ‹James› md5 is DC3F0910199CE4462939489BD4ACC60B and that size is right
02/01/2007 17:28:26 ‹James› what OS is this 2k3 or xp?
02/01/2007 17:31:02 ‹lehane› sry - hadn't got MD5 on the target m/c. Yes checks OK. System is 2k3.
02/01/2007 17:32:50 ‹James› i'm just making an msi of it. i'll email it over
02/01/2007 17:34:01 ‹James› sent
02/01/2007 17:36:28 ‹lehane› OK - I'll check it now
02/01/2007 17:39:30 ‹lehane› yea! That works
02/01/2007 17:39:38 ‹James› yay
02/01/2007 17:40:45 ‹lehane› :-) lots of new features!
02/01/2007 17:41:20 ‹James› esp, the new security layer..
02/01/2007 17:41:34 ‹James› config/settings/security
02/01/2007 17:41:53 ‹lehane› and Telemetry - must get the spec signed off...
02/01/2007 17:42:22 ‹James› you won't see device appear though. but the 'support' is there to easily add it
02/01/2007 17:43:17 ‹James› i had a thought on the spec
02/01/2007 17:43:40 ‹James› I added Name= and Location= to BSC devies sent from HomeSeer and it worked really well
02/01/2007 17:44:06 ‹lehane› Looks great. I'll have a run through in the morning. Had a frustrating evening trying to machine stainless steel for the LCD's :-@
02/01/2007 17:44:09 ‹James› I was thinking they would be good as optional elements to the .info/event
02/01/2007 17:44:29 ‹lehane› they's be easy to add
02/01/2007 17:44:37 ‹James› yep
02/01/2007 17:44:49 ‹James› but do the LCD's look good now?
02/01/2007 17:45:28 ‹lehane› no! my micro mill just can't do it, so I'l go to a fabricator and get them done
02/01/2007 17:45:51 ‹lehane› and I'm still coding the touch
02/01/2007 17:45:53 ‹James› are these touchscreen lcds or tv lcds
02/01/2007 17:45:59 ‹James› ah the tough ones
02/01/2007 17:46:04 ‹James› touch ones
02/01/2007 17:46:04 ‹lehane› the baby 128x64
02/01/2007 17:46:12 ‹James› sweet
02/01/2007 17:46:50 ‹lehane› hope so. there's an xml config file but they will look like BSC and support message.display
02/01/2007 17:47:20 ‹James› i'll await the pics/demo
02/01/2007 17:47:39 ‹lehane› back to work tomorrow though :-(
02/01/2007 17:47:49 ‹James› i was back today
02/01/2007 17:47:51 ‹James› :-(
02/01/2007 17:48:03 ‹James› 7,000 waiting emails
02/01/2007 17:48:25 ‹lehane› ..not enough hours in the day. 6999 Spam?!?
02/01/2007 17:48:31 ‹James› a mailing list went into a mad loop!
02/01/2007 17:48:48 ‹James› quite funny from helpdesk company
02/01/2007 17:49:10 ‹lehane› bad news!
02/01/2007 17:50:11 ‹James› well it is a free helpdesk. stress tested our exchange nicely though
02/01/2007 17:50:44 ‹lehane› OK, I'm going to turn in. Thanks for the help. Catch you next week- or sooner....
02/01/2007 17:51:17 ‹James› np, nite. let me know if you find any bugs in fp though. esp as there have been quite a few changes!
02/01/2007 17:52:10 ‹lehane› you know me! Will do. BTW the install info on the website doesn't have the service install instructions. Night
02/01/2007 17:52:42 ‹James› it should make icons in the start menu,, but i'll check it. nite
02/01/2007 17:53:42 ‹KevinH› Back...
02/01/2007 17:53:50 ‹lehane› It does - but I guess a lot will miss them..bye
02/01/2007 17:53:57 ‹KevinH› Was thinking whilst driving... (dnagerous)
02/01/2007 17:54:04 * lehane quit
02/01/2007 17:54:06 ‹James› byee
02/01/2007 17:54:16 ‹James› bad move , thinking is overrated