xAP Talk Transcript 2006 11 15

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14/11/2006 14:06:04 * Edward joins My room
14/11/2006 14:37:58 * James joins My room
14/11/2006 14:38:49 ‹James› hi
14/11/2006 14:45:33 * KevinH joins My room
14/11/2006 14:46:27 ‹KevinH› I have visitors again tonight but may be around about 10.30 ish if they leave early...
14/11/2006 14:48:24 ‹James› hi
14/11/2006 15:02:49 * kevint joins My room
14/11/2006 15:03:23 ‹kevint› evening all
14/11/2006 15:04:47 ‹kevint› Did you all get Lehanes email?
14/11/2006 15:06:26 ‹Edward› several - which one?!
14/11/2006 15:06:52 ‹kevint› the revised TSC spec?
14/11/2006 15:07:56 ‹Edward› Nope - last thing I have on that is your comments, yesterday
14/11/2006 15:08:11 ‹kevint› ah just checked you werent in the To: so I have forwarded it to you
14/11/2006 15:08:26 ‹Edward› got it
14/11/2006 15:09:14 ‹kevint› Needs some more reading...
14/11/2006 15:09:41 ‹kevint› are KH and JT ghosts?
14/11/2006 15:09:47 ‹Edward› Yup - one for the reading pile
14/11/2006 15:10:02 ‹Edward› Spooky
14/11/2006 15:10:28 ‹kevint› as long as we are not back to he halloween bats
14/11/2006 15:10:32 ‹kevint› ;)
14/11/2006 15:11:20 ‹kevint› You seem to be makeing good progress with your slim connector
14/11/2006 15:12:53 ‹Edward› yes - doing some debugging right now, want to get a release out this evening
14/11/2006 15:13:22 ‹kevint› I thought the broadcast thing a little odd, but You have sorted that now
14/11/2006 15:14:23 ‹Edward› yeah, I'm all RFC'd out
14/11/2006 15:14:36 ‹Edward› IP v4 really is a right mess
14/11/2006 15:14:55 ‹Edward› no wonder everybody has differing opinions
14/11/2006 15:15:24 ‹kevint› I would not presume to be definitive on the subject...
14/11/2006 15:19:10 ‹Edward› me neither - so seemed easiest just to make it a parameter
14/11/2006 15:38:06 ‹James› back
14/11/2006 15:38:44 ‹James› did i miss anything ;-)
14/11/2006 15:41:53 ‹kevint› no Edward is working on a slim release
14/11/2006 15:42:07 ‹James› :-)
14/11/2006 15:42:14 ‹kevint› and I am looking at one of my temperature apps
14/11/2006 15:42:30 ‹James› it is so much nicer with a plugin rather than the external connector
14/11/2006 15:42:45 ‹James› more graphs then? did teh jpg thing work out?
14/11/2006 15:42:54 ‹kevint› I really need to dig my slimp3 out of its box
14/11/2006 15:43:18 ‹kevint› Yes graphs are good, now have a 30 minute trend
14/11/2006 15:43:41 ‹James› are they quick to draw?
14/11/2006 15:43:44 ‹kevint› and -10 to +100 so deg C is ok
14/11/2006 15:44:18 ‹kevint› they dont seem to be particulary heavy weight
14/11/2006 15:44:35 ‹kevint› I didnt really notice even at once per second
14/11/2006 15:45:04 ‹James› thats good. I do want to get a graphing function into ping and Floorplan
14/11/2006 15:45:03 ‹kevint› does the slim connector work with the slim simulator?
14/11/2006 15:45:24 ‹James› yep
14/11/2006 15:45:28 ‹kevint› Pings a but digital...?
14/11/2006 15:45:33 ‹kevint› bit
14/11/2006 15:45:56 ‹James› the softslim appears to the slimserver as anothing player, not some special case
14/11/2006 15:46:03 ‹kevint› and the idea was to draw the graph at the connector and serv the resulting jpg
14/11/2006 15:46:13 ‹James› Ping has a trip time
14/11/2006 15:46:34 ‹kevint› sorry explain please
14/11/2006 15:46:59 ‹James› the time from sending the ping to receiving the reply
14/11/2006 15:47:11 ‹James› RoundTripTime
14/11/2006 15:47:47 ‹kevint› ah, I have been looking at shutdown systems today, trip means something different then
14/11/2006 15:47:56 ‹kevint› ;)
14/11/2006 15:48:32 ‹James› and i didn't mean falling over either
14/11/2006 15:48:44 ‹kevint› (B)
14/11/2006 15:48:56 ‹James› indeed
14/11/2006 15:49:32 ‹kevint› My next aim is to draw time ticks along the bottom of the trend and then keep the ticks in the same place
14/11/2006 15:49:50 ‹kevint› when the data moves to the left
14/11/2006 15:50:11 ‹James› that'll be fun
14/11/2006 16:05:29 ‹Edward› I wonder if the graphs could be rendered on a Slim graphic display
14/11/2006 16:05:55 ‹James› how good would that be¬
14/11/2006 16:05:56 ‹Edward› Maybe I'll leave that for another day
14/11/2006 16:05:57 ‹kevint› mine is an older character slimp3
14/11/2006 16:06:24 ‹Edward› Display on the v3 is gorgeous
14/11/2006 16:06:30 ‹James› E, does the slim plugin now support message.display or is it still the xaposd.slim schema?
14/11/2006 16:06:41 ‹James› I'm still on a slimp3 too :-(
14/11/2006 16:06:44 ‹Edward› all flavours
14/11/2006 16:07:02 ‹James› excelent
14/11/2006 16:07:06 ‹Edward› and no target required
14/11/2006 16:07:26 ‹Edward› Running weather right now
14/11/2006 16:07:37 ‹James› I'm still running the last test release, I really must upgraded it!
14/11/2006 16:11:37 ‹James› and it's done
14/11/2006 16:16:17 ‹Edward› Rather than weather info appearing periodically (my wife - "do I have to sit here and wait for it?) - it'd be better to scroll to a place on the slim menu and get the info when you want it
14/11/2006 16:16:27 ‹Edward› or have it as a screensaver
14/11/2006 16:16:37 ‹Edward› sounds like a good first example
14/11/2006 16:16:47 ‹Edward› for my xAP Slim plugin concept
14/11/2006 16:17:15 ‹Edward› could access forecast that way too
14/11/2006 16:17:17 ‹James› you could always use flooplan to run an event based on received IR, that generated a new OSD message
14/11/2006 16:18:05 ‹James› but i really like the screensaver concept
14/11/2006 16:18:33 ‹James› It could work like the RSS screensaver currently does
14/11/2006 16:22:05 ‹James› hmm, think i'm having an issue with the new slim plugin
14/11/2006 16:22:37 ‹Edward› that's because it's broken in many ways!
14/11/2006 16:22:53 ‹James› I'm seeing the transport messages and the bsc ones, but it's not generating IR messages and it's not responding to messages.didsplay
14/11/2006 16:23:19 ‹James› and IR is enabled in the plugin confg screen
14/11/2006 16:23:39 ‹James› let me try a restart
14/11/2006 16:23:40 ‹Edward› I'm suprised the display function works at all
14/11/2006 16:24:04 ‹James› that's the best bit!
14/11/2006 16:24:08 ‹Edward› I'm debugging custom button maps right now - got some examples from Max
14/11/2006 16:25:27 ‹James› a restart has fixed the IR messages
14/11/2006 16:25:38 ‹James› but not the display
14/11/2006 16:27:44 ‹James› xAP-OSD.Display didn't work either i'm afraid
14/11/2006 16:27:57 ‹James› which i'm sure it did before
14/11/2006 16:28:40 ‹James› if ($class =~ /^(xap-osd|slimp3|slim|message)\.display$/) { don't you just love perl..
14/11/2006 16:32:14 ‹James› a targetted message blinks up on the screen for 1 second but an un targettted or > targetted message seems to do nothing
14/11/2006 16:35:19 ‹Edward› Yes - broken - don't bother!
14/11/2006 16:35:26 ‹kevint› changing the subject....
14/11/2006 16:35:38 ‹James› ok, no more bother
14/11/2006 16:35:48 ‹Edward› (and yes - I seem to have become a Perl convert!)
14/11/2006 16:36:24 ‹kevint› it has been annoying me for a while that my VB apps start wuicker than the hub and stop it (the hub) working
14/11/2006 16:36:25 ‹James› it's this syntax classs =~ /^(x that just puts me off
14/11/2006 16:36:50 ‹James› set your apps not to use the hub port
14/11/2006 16:37:07 ‹James› service hub
14/11/2006 16:37:19 ‹kevint› i use the service hub
14/11/2006 16:37:23 ‹James› or use a batchfile with delays to launch things
14/11/2006 16:37:43 ‹kevint› yes i use delyexec but its not very precise
14/11/2006 16:37:51 ‹kevint› delayexec
14/11/2006 16:38:05 ‹kevint› precise or tidy
14/11/2006 16:38:23 ‹James› assuming the apps are service ones then there was an app posted that made one service depend on another
14/11/2006 16:39:13 ‹kevint› My environment is service hub and then mainly intranet ocx based apps
14/11/2006 16:39:35 ‹kevint› explain to me abiut the implications of noy using the hub port
14/11/2006 16:40:13 ‹James› other than apps taking upto a minute to receive messages there shouldn't be too many issues
14/11/2006 16:41:18 ‹kevint› So if I had an app that waited for the hub service to start then ran the apps that would make some sense?
14/11/2006 16:41:25 ‹James› but on a server it really doesn't matter as you reboot infrequently and if the apps take a little long to startup after a reboot then it doesn't really matter
14/11/2006 16:41:47 ‹James› that could work,
14/11/2006 16:42:13 ‹kevint› at least i havent wated the last half hour or so then ;(
14/11/2006 16:42:23 ‹kevint› ;)
14/11/2006 16:42:24 ‹James› just need to make sure that the process of checking that the hub is bound to the port doesn't cause the hub to not be able to bind to the port
14/11/2006 16:43:38 ‹kevint› no doesnt check the port, checks that the service is running, starts it if it isn't, then runs the app when its has started
14/11/2006 16:43:42 ‹James› just bind an app to a high port number and send xAP once every 10 seconds until it receives a message back. That would mean that it would only trigger once the hub is bound and running
14/11/2006 16:44:16 ‹James› .net app can takes ages to start even from the moment the service says 'started'
14/11/2006 16:45:22 ‹kevint› Are you saying that the hub has not started, and grabbed the port until well after the service starts?
14/11/2006 16:45:33 ‹James› yep
14/11/2006 16:45:47 ‹kevint› :-o
14/11/2006 16:46:56 ‹James› it's life fun
14/11/2006 16:47:12 ‹kevint› :-S
14/11/2006 16:47:26 ‹James› i would say on my really slow server it takes about 30 seconds after teh hub says started to when it relays messages
14/11/2006 16:47:46 ‹James› on a bad day that is
14/11/2006 16:49:14 ‹James› why not jsut use a xAP app witha hbeat interval of 10 seconds and wait until it receives something
14/11/2006 16:49:30 ‹James› then you knwo for sure
14/11/2006 16:52:40 ‹James› and you could be very un xAP and only send the hbeats to the local IP address rather than broadcast, which would prevent overloading every other app
14/11/2006 17:00:42 ‹KevinH› hi
14/11/2006 17:00:55 ‹James› hi
14/11/2006 17:01:11 ‹KevinH› what a dreary night....
14/11/2006 17:01:42 ‹James› what did those visitors do to you?
14/11/2006 17:01:45 ‹KevinH› anyway - what's happened ?
14/11/2006 17:02:27 ‹KevinH› family are always the worst
14/11/2006 17:02:43 ‹KevinH› i did type (by accident) worts and corrected it
14/11/2006 17:02:47 ‹James› I broke something, KT made something graphy, then went ona tangent, and E is having ideas
14/11/2006 17:03:03 ‹KevinH› what have you broken then ?
14/11/2006 17:03:21 ‹James› display on the slim,
14/11/2006 17:03:30 ‹James› but E's on the case ;-)
14/11/2006 17:03:33 ‹KevinH› PS Rabbits are still fluffy wondeful pets
14/11/2006 17:03:58 ‹KevinH› (although they can't pronounce there R's)
14/11/2006 17:04:10 ‹James› http://www.savetoby.com/
14/11/2006 17:04:16 ‹KevinH› there = their - well they sound the same
14/11/2006 17:05:21 ‹KevinH› hmmm ... "Adopt a free virtual pet and play with it online"
14/11/2006 17:05:43 ‹KevinH› mine didn't even respond to pings !
14/11/2006 17:06:08 ‹James› was that when the cable fell out then?
14/11/2006 17:06:47 ‹KevinH› I hate to admit it but that was one bug (that wasn't)
14/11/2006 17:08:11 ‹KevinH› I'm now back in teh realms of how to respond to bsc.cmd messages sent from myself to myself when Ethernet is only half duplex...
14/11/2006 17:08:47 ‹KevinH› and pushing the UDP tx packet back in my UDP receive routine don't work
14/11/2006 17:09:09 ‹James› the 1/2 duplex is a rabbit issue or jsut when linked to a hub?
14/11/2006 17:09:53 ‹kevint› Theres nothing wrong with tangents ;)
14/11/2006 17:10:10 ‹kevint› they are after all straignt lines
14/11/2006 17:10:22 ‹KevinH› I have seen in someone elses code #DEFINE DUPLEX = FULL which I need to investigate
14/11/2006 17:10:47 ‹KevinH› ....in the wrong direction
14/11/2006 17:10:56 ‹KevinH› How's things KT ?
14/11/2006 17:11:27 ‹kevint› apart from my tangent you mean ?
14/11/2006 17:11:52 ‹kevint› well I managed some comments on TSC and Lehane has re-issued so that is progress
14/11/2006 17:11:56 ‹KevinH› We did have a philosphical discussion tonight on life the universe and ...
14/11/2006 17:12:14 ‹KevinH› Better than I did then ...
14/11/2006 17:12:40 ‹kevint› ah I thought he might have had the credits wrong... *-)
14/11/2006 17:12:44 ‹KevinH› The 'round world' vs 'infinite space' type of thing
14/11/2006 17:12:59 ‹Edward› I will have the answer to life the universe and... on Friday!
14/11/2006 17:13:01 ‹kevint› Now that is just too obtuse
14/11/2006 17:13:23 ‹James› i thought it was infinite repetition
14/11/2006 17:13:37 ‹KevinH› Hi E
14/11/2006 17:13:42 * kevint joins My room
14/11/2006 17:13:46 ‹Edward› Hi!
14/11/2006 17:14:05 ‹James› E i'll buy you a donut if message.display works ;-)
14/11/2006 17:14:18 ‹James› with jam and everything
14/11/2006 17:14:29 ‹Edward› Krispy Kreme and ond your on
14/11/2006 17:14:37 ‹James› deal
14/11/2006 17:15:06 ‹kevint› I think we are talking serious junk food here
14/11/2006 17:15:09 ‹Edward› Friday is my birthday - I'll be 42! (gulp)
14/11/2006 17:15:26 ‹kevint› We kevins are slightly older
14/11/2006 17:15:31 ‹James› so You are the answer to life the univere and ..
14/11/2006 17:15:34 ‹kevint› but happy birthday
14/11/2006 17:15:46 ‹James› indeed, have a great day!
14/11/2006 17:16:35 ‹KevinH› I expect great thinsg from teh Slim xAP release on Fri then...
14/11/2006 17:16:47 ‹Edward› Just resolved Max's custom button mapping problem as 'not a defect' - so just one left (persistent SubUID's - thanks KH!)
14/11/2006 17:16:53 ‹KevinH› I do remember being 42 (I think)
14/11/2006 17:17:05 ‹kevint› I am a bit cocerned about toby
14/11/2006 17:17:11 ‹James› i'll keep quiet
14/11/2006 17:17:28 ‹James› toby would of made a nice pie
14/11/2006 17:17:31 ‹KevinH› The persistent UID's raises a whole load of other Q's I think
14/11/2006 17:17:29 ‹kevint› its a savetoby site with a recipe page ?
14/11/2006 17:17:56 ‹Edward› ....
14/11/2006 17:18:02 ‹James› it's changed now, but the guy was demanding 50,000 from viewer or he would eat toby
14/11/2006 17:18:17 ‹KevinH› I am not sure my request is 'right' but I do store UID's in mapper so maybe it is...
14/11/2006 17:18:44 ‹KevinH› I'd eat it
14/11/2006 17:18:59 ‹kevint› Well For what its worth I think that they should persist
14/11/2006 17:19:15 ‹James› "so just one left " no donut then
14/11/2006 17:19:26 ‹James› :'(
14/11/2006 17:19:29 ‹kevint› and message.display.....
14/11/2006 17:19:50 ‹KevinH› What is the queuing implemented in Slim P - and does it respect priorities ?
14/11/2006 17:19:53 ‹kevint› persist the uid's
14/11/2006 17:20:16 ‹James› needs to support Dsiplay first ;-)
14/11/2006 17:20:25 ‹KevinH› true
14/11/2006 17:20:43 ‹James› I'll raise it to two donuts
14/11/2006 17:21:02 ‹kevint› and is supporting targeting not required too?
14/11/2006 17:21:04 ‹KevinH› and I have a jar of Mrs Beatons best starwberry
14/11/2006 17:21:15 ‹kevint› I think this is called specification bloat
14/11/2006 17:21:36 ‹James› no, progammer bloat,
14/11/2006 17:21:48 ‹KevinH› (H)
14/11/2006 17:21:51 ‹kevint› only after you have eaten the donuts
14/11/2006 17:21:52 ‹James› but they are very good donuts
14/11/2006 17:21:53 ‹Edward› message.display - already fixed I think
14/11/2006 17:22:05 ‹James› happy happy ahppy
14/11/2006 17:22:21 ‹kevint› one down one donut to go
14/11/2006 17:22:38 ‹KevinH› I have to say J that xAP Intranet with a collection of apps (as KT already knows) is a very nice setup...
14/11/2006 17:23:25 ‹KevinH› I'll :$ on your behalf
14/11/2006 17:24:03 ‹KevinH› as I'm sure you're too modest
14/11/2006 17:24:04 ‹kevint› If you wantthe full accolade, then I can tell you that my wife compains when switchboard and news is not running
14/11/2006 17:24:26 ‹KevinH› .. is that all ...
14/11/2006 17:24:40 ‹kevint› I am trying to keep this clean..
14/11/2006 17:24:58 ‹KevinH› just deleted what I typed
14/11/2006 17:25:11 ‹James› :$ ;-)
14/11/2006 17:25:15 ‹kevint› and our world would be complete if weater was releiable and in the new style...
14/11/2006 17:25:20 ‹KevinH› but heartbeats should have bodies
14/11/2006 17:25:26 ‹James› and TV?
14/11/2006 17:25:27 ‹kevint› sorry couldnt resist
14/11/2006 17:25:50 ‹kevint› yes But I can look on the TV if I need to
14/11/2006 17:26:05 ‹James› weather is annoying me, I run it in the ide and it never has an issue. run it as an app and don't look at it and it crashes
14/11/2006 17:26:07 ‹KevinH› ..warning Will Robinson - attack on two fronts
14/11/2006 17:26:08 ‹kevint› yes But I can look on the TiVo if I need to
14/11/2006 17:26:28 ‹KevinH› Weather doesnt crash for me
14/11/2006 17:26:43 ‹kevint› do you use the bbc?
14/11/2006 17:26:53 ‹KevinH› although i can't find it's icon on xAP Intranet
14/11/2006 17:27:01 ‹James› It doesn't like my dodgy adsl, and something happens on some downloads
14/11/2006 17:27:36 ‹James› if you want weather in the intranet, just use KT's app and iframe bbci, job done
14/11/2006 17:28:23 ‹KevinH› I have a 2097 ID rather than EGNM - that means I'm using BBC doesnt it ?
14/11/2006 17:28:25 ‹kevint› mmm, thats a cop out
14/11/2006 17:28:39 ‹James› E, If you are working up to another release it's probably worth noting soemwhere that if you change one of the config settings you should restart the slimserver
14/11/2006 17:28:45 ‹KevinH› Maybe it crashes when you get a full sun icon ;-)
14/11/2006 17:28:50 ‹James› yes
14/11/2006 17:28:58 ‹James› full sun, what's that?
14/11/2006 17:29:11 ‹kevint› on xAPintranet
14/11/2006 17:29:16 ‹KevinH› well it's something we don't get up't North
14/11/2006 17:29:24 ‹James› it's rare in london, it never happens up notrh ;-)
14/11/2006 17:29:29 ‹James› lol
14/11/2006 17:29:44 ‹kevint› if I can make a suggestion which I made before and which I dont think I explained very well
14/11/2006 17:29:50 ‹KevinH› I like the Noprthern Lights graphic though
14/11/2006 17:30:38 ‹kevint› The xAPintranet is great but I think there are two lots of end users
14/11/2006 17:30:56 ‹KevinH› My current xAP traffic is nearly 300/min - but that's mostly Netiom with all I/O configured - 3 slimplayers and Ping on silly intervals
14/11/2006 17:31:17 ‹kevint› eg my wife likes news, switchboard, floorplan directory enqiries etc
14/11/2006 17:31:35 ‹James› ok, so if she is happy then you are happy
14/11/2006 17:32:10 ‹kevint› and doent understand or care about ping quasar etc
14/11/2006 17:32:27 ‹kevint› but i do
14/11/2006 17:32:41 ‹James› bet you are ging to say groups soon
14/11/2006 17:33:00 ‹KevinH› Thats a bit like saying likes BBC1 BBC2 ITV but doesnt like C4 - it should still be selectable
14/11/2006 17:33:04 ‹kevint› but they all appear on the xAPuntranet menu icon bar
14/11/2006 17:33:30 ‹KevinH› you want a user profile ?
14/11/2006 17:33:37 ‹kevint› no KH my point is that for proper end users some things should not be visible
14/11/2006 17:33:43 ‹KevinH› so do the buttons on a TV remote
14/11/2006 17:34:12 ‹James› this was the reason for adding the ability for an app not to act as part of the intranet but still have the web server
14/11/2006 17:34:22 ‹James› like the screensaver does
14/11/2006 17:34:41 ‹kevint› yep correct
14/11/2006 17:35:05 ‹James› but more optiosn are needed. I leads to a single sign on infrastructure which will be stupidly complicated
14/11/2006 17:36:23 ‹kevint› I guess what I am suggesting is a second level of web.service type message that only intranet launcher understands
14/11/2006 17:36:31 ‹James› but something simple like putting the apps into groups and being able to pick the group from the tool bard would do
14/11/2006 17:36:48 ‹kevint› and which it uses to put the webs on an "engineering" tab]
14/11/2006 17:37:32 ‹James› i get the idea.
14/11/2006 17:37:39 ‹kevint› similar to the existing Internet iem
14/11/2006 17:37:44 ‹kevint› item
14/11/2006 17:38:13 ‹kevint› I think groups might be too complicated...
14/11/2006 17:38:20 ‹kevint› for this scenario
14/11/2006 17:38:27 ‹James› actually i think they would make it simple
14/11/2006 17:39:07 ‹James› as it would handle the toolbar on teh website as well as the data sent to the launcher
14/11/2006 17:39:33 ‹James› simple to configure, and backwards compatible
14/11/2006 17:39:34 ‹kevint› I just hope I explained it better this time
14/11/2006 17:39:51 ‹James› not too bad
14/11/2006 17:41:09 ‹KevinH› You there E ?
14/11/2006 17:42:20 ‹KevinH› I wondered how difficult it would be to get a Viewer out that might not validity check the UID ?
14/11/2006 17:42:46 ‹James› that would need a suitable hub to go with it too
14/11/2006 17:43:04 ‹KevinH› Viewer can act as a hub ;-)
14/11/2006 17:43:26 ‹James› yes but the hub code is the same on all xfx apps and would need changing
14/11/2006 17:43:36 ‹kevint› hubs again :-S
14/11/2006 17:43:50 ‹James› aiui Viewer is a viewer app, a container app and a hub all in one
14/11/2006 17:45:29 ‹KevinH› Maybe I should re-phrase what I asked - to works (in all functionality) as Viewer currently does with non validated UID's then
14/11/2006 17:47:20 ‹KevinH› I assumed (maybe wrongly) that if you take thec check out of the appropriate xFX 'library' or whatever that all apps would recompile and work
14/11/2006 17:47:28 ‹James› it would be useful, as would a viewer where you could turn hex mode on and still respend messages
14/11/2006 17:47:56 ‹James› quite possibly
14/11/2006 17:48:03 ‹KevinH› ( as would being able to filter the stored messages)
14/11/2006 17:48:29 ‹KevinH› on class perhpas for example eg all BSc
14/11/2006 17:49:29 ‹James› and to make the tree stay in the same place even if a new device comes it
14/11/2006 17:49:38 ‹James› comes in
14/11/2006 17:49:42 ‹KevinH› I know SB was close to moving to thsi sort of feature
14/11/2006 17:50:10 ‹KevinH› lots of 'todo's' ;-)
14/11/2006 17:50:22 ‹James› that custom column thing is very powerful, pity i've go tno idea how to use it
14/11/2006 17:50:33 ‹KevinH› I tried too
14/11/2006 17:51:22 ‹James› we all failed