xAP Talk Transcript 2006 08 08
08/08/2006 21:01:14 * James is connected
08/08/2006 21:05:39 * KevinH is connected
08/08/2006 21:05:59 ‹KevinH› Hi J
08/08/2006 21:06:05 ‹James› hi
08/08/2006 21:06:27 ‹KevinH› Got your latest update but haven't had a chance yet to play
08/08/2006 21:07:03 ‹James› it's a bit of a different app. quite useful though
08/08/2006 21:07:30 ‹James› once you know what you/ how you ask things
08/08/2006 21:08:24 ‹KevinH› Can it help on C syntax ?
08/08/2006 21:08:59 ‹James› q: What is C?
08/08/2006 21:09:09 ‹James› a:C programming language - C programming language This article or section does not cite its references or sources. You can help Wikipedia by introducing appropriate citations. ... The C programming language (often, just "C";) is a general-purpose, procedural, imperative computer ...
08/08/2006 21:09:22 ‹James› well at least it knows what C is
08/08/2006 21:09:50 ‹KevinH› one up on me then ;-)
08/08/2006 21:10:12 ‹James› :-)
08/08/2006 21:10:24 ‹James› still playing witht the bsc rabbit then?
08/08/2006 21:13:40 ‹KevinH› 1 sec.. phone
08/08/2006 21:17:05 ‹KevinH› Back
08/08/2006 21:17:18 ‹KevinH› Yes - got it mostly all working - inc teh Ajax
08/08/2006 21:17:35 ‹James› excelent
08/08/2006 21:17:49 ‹KevinH› I have still to play with 'delayed' responses from the server yet
08/08/2006 21:18:22 ‹KevinH› I think what i can do is ask teh server for all states and then ask it to just let me know of changes
08/08/2006 21:18:50 ‹KevinH› with perhaps a 60 second timeout or something when it responds 'no changes'
08/08/2006 21:18:57 ‹KevinH› and when I receive that i just ask again
08/08/2006 21:19:12 ‹James› ok, should all work
08/08/2006 21:19:51 ‹KevinH› I am not sure how long that '60 secs' can be - some things I read imply it can be any length of time
08/08/2006 21:20:12 ‹KevinH› but I want to avoid a constant polling and it also means you get absolutely instant updates
08/08/2006 21:20:46 ‹James› only trouble would be a blip in connection on longer wait times, so you'd need to detect a connection drop
08/08/2006 21:21:02 ‹KevinH› It would be interesting in your VB code to see what happens if you delay a response say 5 mins - whether you get a timeout error thrown
08/08/2006 21:21:25 ‹KevinH› Its a tcp socket so I guess that becomes evident
08/08/2006 21:21:33 ‹James› currently the intranetocx would time out any tcp connection after 30 secs
08/08/2006 21:22:04 ‹KevinH› For me doing things on teh Rabbit involves buffers and loops and all sorts so not quite so easy
08/08/2006 21:22:14 ‹KevinH› I toyed witha tiny VB app to play
08/08/2006 21:23:13 ‹James› so is the unit close to market now?
08/08/2006 21:25:19 * Dan W is connected
08/08/2006 21:25:42 ‹KevinH› It's close to Huddersfield market ;-)
08/08/2006 21:26:07 ‹James› it's been so long since the last up north joke ;-)
08/08/2006 21:26:27 * Dan W disconnected (timeout)
08/08/2006 21:26:37 ‹KevinH› No - attending to the hardware will take a bit more time - but close to being testable by people if they're not worried about cosmetics.
08/08/2006 21:27:18 ‹James› so you plan a full boxed job, for the final product?
08/08/2006 21:28:22 ‹KevinH› Maybe... atm you would have to feed it 5V regulated and anything else would kill it which isnt ideal. Also there isn't a nice connector to feed it 5V with currently
08/08/2006 21:29:46 ‹James› at least tou dont need to worry about serail ports and the like, just power and ethernet
08/08/2006 21:30:14 ‹KevinH› Well actually it's an 'off the shelf' Rabbit
08/08/2006 21:30:18 ‹James› i presume a little plugtop power adapter would do for the 5v
08/08/2006 21:30:20 ‹KevinH› just got to get power in
08/08/2006 21:31:38 ‹KevinH› It has to be a good 5V regulated supply as it feeds teh logic directly - typical PSU's have an off load voltage a little high and if it was off by maybe more than 0.2V it might kill it -
08/08/2006 21:31:55 ‹KevinH› So it's rather vulnerable
08/08/2006 21:32:04 ‹KevinH› Some of teh logic is 3.3V though
08/08/2006 21:32:07 ‹James› and it sotres config in flash? iei doesn't need constant power or battery backup?
08/08/2006 21:32:36 ‹KevinH› yes - it writes to onboard Flash
08/08/2006 21:32:49 * G is connected
08/08/2006 21:32:52 ‹James› useful and reliable then
08/08/2006 21:32:57 ‹KevinH› The program is in a separate Flash that is copied to RAM to execute
08/08/2006 21:33:33 ‹KevinH› and it has pdateable firmware via Ethernet
08/08/2006 21:33:34 ‹James› i suppose seperate flash prevents any overruns on the stored data
08/08/2006 21:33:51 ‹James› now thats very useful
08/08/2006 21:34:08 ‹KevinH› you mean array / pointer overuns ?
08/08/2006 21:34:20 ‹James› can you get it to save/load config over http? so you could backup settings
08/08/2006 21:34:22 ‹James› yes
08/08/2006 21:34:38 ‹KevinH› II still have to protect against those ...
08/08/2006 21:34:52 ‹James› k
08/08/2006 21:34:58 ‹James› hi G
08/08/2006 21:35:13 ‹KevinH› The web config checks on submission that all values are legit - (mostly)
08/08/2006 21:35:56 ‹KevinH› The xAP config schema doesn't (yet)
08/08/2006 21:36:19 ‹KevinH› It's very quiet here tonight ....
08/08/2006 21:36:41 ‹KevinH› Yes ...
08/08/2006 21:36:41 ‹James› the hotter it gets the quieter it gets in here
08/08/2006 21:37:31 ‹KevinH› However teh current interface is Ajax only - I need to serve alternate pages for non Ajax but teh validation is performed server side
08/08/2006 21:37:56 ‹James› ok, so pretty fool proof then
08/08/2006 21:37:57 ‹KevinH› Do you still see memory creep in IE with Ajax ?
08/08/2006 21:38:05 ‹James› yes
08/08/2006 21:38:14 ‹G› Yodle
08/08/2006 21:38:24 ‹James› hi
08/08/2006 21:38:32 ‹G› Just listening - cant say theres much i can help with here.
08/08/2006 21:38:47 ‹G› Im hoping to see the wods "comfort" and "xap" in the same sentence :-)
08/08/2006 21:39:08 ‹KevinH› I was wondering if it was perhpas anything to do with teh frequency of Ajax polls and broken transactions ina ny way using buffers
08/08/2006 21:39:21 ‹KevinH› xAP is comforting...
08/08/2006 21:39:28 ‹James› do you have any other apps in there, like HomeSeer for instance?
08/08/2006 21:39:32 ‹KevinH› Is taht gareth then ?
08/08/2006 21:39:39 ‹James› ( i was thinkn that exact same pun )
08/08/2006 21:40:14 ‹G› aye tis me
08/08/2006 21:40:41 ‹G› I have homeseer - but thats for logging only. id never have a pc controlling anything - they WILL goes titsup regularly
08/08/2006 21:40:54 ‹KevinH› Did PaulG ever update his HS plugin (to support counters was it ?)
08/08/2006 21:41:20 ‹G› He did - doesnt work with HS2 (which ive never had to use yet anyway)
08/08/2006 21:41:53 ‹G› For logging, its great. Just works.
08/08/2006 21:41:54 ‹KevinH› Unfortunately although I was Comfort allied my new home had a Galaxy alarm already installed and maintained so I sold (most of) my Comfort
08/08/2006 21:42:13 ‹G› TBH, I dont really know how many of the ukha'ers have Comfort
08/08/2006 21:42:28 ‹KevinH› Ahh - and he's not going to update to HS2 compatible ?
08/08/2006 21:42:38 ‹G› Now, if Sonos could talk xAp .....ah, lovely
08/08/2006 21:42:58 ‹G› Mr Lidstone said he did some naughty programming and needs to be redone to work
08/08/2006 21:43:00 ‹KevinH› Well... how are you getting on with that HS plugin for Sonos ?
08/08/2006 21:43:09 ‹G› fine for HS1 - no good for HS2
08/08/2006 21:43:12 ‹James› does sonos do upnp?
08/08/2006 21:43:29 ‹KevinH› yes - but a bespoke version
08/08/2006 21:43:37 ‹G› the HS plugin for Sonos - doesnt work for me. And the chap doesnt seem interested in fixing it. It borders on useless really. shame.
08/08/2006 21:43:43 ‹G› yy sonos unpn is nasty
08/08/2006 21:43:44 ‹KevinH› or should I say a deliberately crippled version
08/08/2006 21:44:02 ‹G› there are some nice features coming up - but i dont want "ha" in sonos
08/08/2006 21:44:06 ‹James› a crippled standard, how useful
08/08/2006 21:44:50 ‹G› Ho about a xAP <> uPnP gateway ?
08/08/2006 21:44:56 ‹James› I presume Patrick's comfort app is of no use?
08/08/2006 21:44:58 ‹G› All in hardware of course ! :-)
08/08/2006 21:45:00 ‹KevinH› you can play from a uPNP audio server and it can't serve the music via uPNP either - despite advertising its services as such (on teh network)
08/08/2006 21:45:28 ‹KevinH› A xAP to uPNP gateway is interesting but it wouldn't help with Sonos
08/08/2006 21:45:37 ‹G› Isn't there some sort of xAP hardware module that has an array to map xAP commands to a rs232 command ? that would get Comfort xAP enabled to some degree
08/08/2006 21:45:47 ‹KevinH› First line should read " You CANT not you CAN
08/08/2006 21:46:31 ‹KevinH› You can buy a xAP Netiom that will send any serial string to a device and likewise report any serial data received on xAP
08/08/2006 21:46:47 ‹G› So if we plug that into a Comfort UCM .... ?
08/08/2006 21:47:03 ‹KevinH› but that's of liitle help here as you'l need some logic to interpret the Comfort commands
08/08/2006 21:47:16 ‹G› half way there !
08/08/2006 21:47:23 ‹KevinH› You could plug a UCM in directly to it but all it will show is something like...
08/08/2006 21:49:19 ‹KevinH› xap-header
08/08/2006 21:49:36 ‹KevinH› hmm - cant paste xAP messages here :-(
08/08/2006 21:49:53 ‹James› line by line only
08/08/2006 21:49:53 ‹KevinH› it will just have a parameter line that says
08/08/2006 21:50:03 ‹KevinH› text=UB7756U
08/08/2006 21:50:11 ‹KevinH› or something equally unhelpful
08/08/2006 21:50:12 ‹G› ok, but basically it's not there at the moment
08/08/2006 21:50:31 ‹KevinH› You can buy a xAP Netiom already
08/08/2006 21:50:38 ‹G› hence the need for the device to have an array in momeory that can be programmed to give a response to a given xap command (bidirectional)
08/08/2006 21:51:29 ‹G› same device could then talk to many rs232 systems ? just reprogram the table
08/08/2006 21:51:35 ‹KevinH› yes- u mentioned that before .. something taht converts a 'SET ALARM' command to a SA564U or whatever
08/08/2006 21:51:42 ‹G› yy
08/08/2006 21:52:05 ‹KevinH› and a ZR678P to a "Zone 2 activation " message
08/08/2006 21:52:31 ‹KevinH› It's sort of not xAP like but I see it would be useful
08/08/2006 21:52:54 * G disconnected (timeout)
08/08/2006 21:53:04 ‹KevinH› Ideally there would be a xAP 'security alarm' schema that had all teh various messages and sequences defined
08/08/2006 21:53:57 ‹KevinH› Guess G's not using FireFox ;-)
08/08/2006 21:54:01 * kevint is connected
08/08/2006 21:54:14 ‹James› dould even be presented in the end as BSC states
08/08/2006 21:54:22 ‹kevint› Hi guys
08/08/2006 21:54:28 ‹James› nor will KT. hi btw
08/08/2006 21:54:29 ‹KevinH› Better late than never - evening K
08/08/2006 21:54:43 ‹KevinH› I present my alarm as BSC I must admit
08/08/2006 21:55:19 * kevint disconnected (timeout)
08/08/2006 21:55:20 ‹KevinH› but i only want zone activations and alarm state reporting - no clever features or remote 'setting' etc
08/08/2006 21:55:46 ‹KevinH› so BSC is great
08/08/2006 21:56:02 ‹James› i would of thought most uses would be exactly that set of thngs.
08/08/2006 21:56:23 ‹KevinH› Are there any updates to this chat app J ?
08/08/2006 21:56:36 ‹kevint› So hows things, Have I missed anything startling?
08/08/2006 21:56:46 ‹kevint› and what will i not do?
08/08/2006 21:56:48 ‹KevinH› I know G would like reporting of Comforts counters etc as that's how C-Bus interfaces to Comfort
08/08/2006 21:56:54 ‹James› don't think so
08/08/2006 21:57:26 ‹James› yes a new beta is out
08/08/2006 21:57:50 ‹kevint› a new beta mapper ?
08/08/2006 21:58:01 ‹KevinH› ( The C-Bus interface to Comfort is a real 'kludge')
08/08/2006 21:58:10 ‹KevinH› A new beta chat version
08/08/2006 21:58:19 ‹James› yes
08/08/2006 21:58:30 ‹KevinH› Was just wondering if they had addressed tehse timeouts at all
08/08/2006 21:58:33 ‹kevint› ahh
08/08/2006 21:59:05 ‹James› they don't mention timeouts in the change log
08/08/2006 21:59:22 ‹kevint› It must be a kevin thing then
08/08/2006 21:59:24 ‹KevinH› I have my C-Bus switches controlling X10 nicely btw :-)
08/08/2006 21:59:34 ‹James› cool
08/08/2006 21:59:43 ‹kevint› throughthe hardware mapper?
08/08/2006 21:59:51 ‹kevint› and x10 connector?
08/08/2006 22:00:01 ‹KevinH› But there are a couple of issues I still need to sort with Edward - but he's on the case...
08/08/2006 22:00:05 ‹KevinH› Yes
08/08/2006 22:00:20 ‹kevint› excellent
08/08/2006 22:01:06 ‹KevinH› I also managed to destroy a C-Bus wireless switch by loading it with inconsistent config data :-(
08/08/2006 22:01:18 ‹kevint› whoops
08/08/2006 22:01:18 ‹KevinH› and that was via Clipsals own software
08/08/2006 22:01:48 ‹KevinH› ... and there is no 'reset' option - it's a back to factory job
08/08/2006 22:02:07 ‹James› a warranty job though?
08/08/2006 22:02:09 ‹kevint› KH I have a recollection that there is a later version of xAPtel around than is on mi4
08/08/2006 22:02:28 ‹KevinH› There is one that uses James' OCX
08/08/2006 22:02:35 ‹kevint› I think I was testing it ? and you were going to upload
08/08/2006 22:03:01 ‹KevinH› I haven't uploaded it I must admit...
08/08/2006 22:03:14 ‹kevint› Ah yes that was it, I was running it without xapax.ocx
08/08/2006 22:03:44 ‹kevint› still rock solid btw
08/08/2006 22:03:44 ‹KevinH› Are you running thsi later version too J ? If so are you happy with it ?
08/08/2006 22:04:32 ‹James› i was running it with no probs but i think i loaded the old one again after i rebuilt my server.. i got a bit confused with the versions!
08/08/2006 22:04:43 ‹KevinH› I have a PC based BSC mapper rewrite I can upload too (that uses J's OCX)
08/08/2006 22:04:47 ‹kevint› I wasnt sure if you were going to wait till you had tried the modem
08/08/2006 22:04:58 ‹KevinH› cough
08/08/2006 22:04:58 ‹kevint› oohh !
08/08/2006 22:05:12 ‹kevint› I was trying to be subtle
08/08/2006 22:05:27 ‹KevinH› When you sent me the modem I didnt realise it was a PC card...
08/08/2006 22:05:39 ‹KevinH› I can send you mapper now if you want..
08/08/2006 22:05:40 ‹kevint› pci
08/08/2006 22:05:42 ‹James› lol
08/08/2006 22:06:01 ‹kevint› I would like it but tbh I have no time available this week
08/08/2006 22:07:14 * Edward is connected
08/08/2006 22:07:24 ‹kevint› seriously though no pressure from me on the modem thing
08/08/2006 22:07:44 ‹KevinH› Just try launching the file I sent on Skype - see if it moans about dependencies
08/08/2006 22:07:54 ‹kevint› k
08/08/2006 22:07:57 ‹KevinH› it may
08/08/2006 22:08:13 ‹KevinH› If it does I'll have to do a build
08/08/2006 22:08:45 ‹KevinH› Hi Edward
08/08/2006 22:08:54 ‹James› Hi E
08/08/2006 22:08:55 ‹Edward› Hi!
08/08/2006 22:09:10 ‹kevint› Well it runs...
08/08/2006 22:09:16 ‹kevint› evening edward
08/08/2006 22:09:39 ‹Edward› Still recovering from lauging my self silly earlier when I found this comment line in the X10 connector...
08/08/2006 22:09:41 ‹kevint› bug report
08/08/2006 22:09:42 ‹KevinH› .. and is it accumulating devices in teh LH pane ?
08/08/2006 22:10:09 ‹kevint› icon calls itself xAPdb
08/08/2006 22:10:20 ‹Edward› // TODO - fails if request is to go to 100%
08/08/2006 22:10:32 ‹Edward› cica 2004
08/08/2006 22:10:35 ‹KevinH› as in 255/255 ;-)
08/08/2006 22:11:00 ‹Edward› or 100% or 64/64 or 1000/1000
08/08/2006 22:11:00 ‹kevint› Yes I have edrads x10 as a tree in the lh and all the endoints in the right
08/08/2006 22:11:11 ‹Edward› however you want to say it!
08/08/2006 22:11:15 ‹KevinH› I have comments like - " This is a real kludge but I'm tired now - must fix later "
08/08/2006 22:11:46 ‹KevinH› Actually I have a general X10 Q...
08/08/2006 22:12:08 ‹Edward› It works if you don't put the level parameter cos it just trats it like an appliance module - working on a fix
08/08/2006 22:12:09 ‹James› E, I don't know if this a an x10 bug or something else but if i use floorplan to doa slow fade in 10 steps from 100% to 0% around 30 or 40% goes up then down again. may just x10 resolution
08/08/2006 22:12:20 ‹Edward› What are you talking about / looking at?
08/08/2006 22:12:32 ‹KevinH› If a device is OFF and you want it to be ON at say 80%.. do you initially have to send a 'housecode/unitcode' ON command or can you just send a DIM
08/08/2006 22:12:43 ‹kevint› thats a x10 foible i think
08/08/2006 22:13:00 ‹James› that's what i guessed
08/08/2006 22:13:02 ‹Edward› just send a dim
08/08/2006 22:13:25 ‹KevinH› ahh - which is why HomeVision misses the trigger ...
08/08/2006 22:13:25 ‹Edward› well, dim down from 100%
08/08/2006 22:13:45 ‹Edward› no - it this case nothing gets set at all
08/08/2006 22:14:21 ‹Edward› anyhow that's all really very dull
08/08/2006 22:14:31 ‹KevinH› I know about the 255/255 not sendinga nything but I tried 254/255 which works but HV misses it
08/08/2006 22:15:05 ‹KevinH› How I hate X10
08/08/2006 22:15:31 ‹Edward› So what would HV expect to see?
08/08/2006 22:15:59 ‹Edward› an On first presumably
08/08/2006 22:15:59 ‹KevinH› I'm thinking it only watches for teh ON command ...
08/08/2006 22:16:36 ‹KevinH› but that seems a poor implementation and introduces another error possibility for devices that can turn ON at a preset dim level
08/08/2006 22:16:41 ‹kevint› Well I have created my first on off map using the KH mapper and it works ;)
08/08/2006 22:17:08 ‹KevinH› ... and you didn't expect that did you !
08/08/2006 22:17:26 ‹KevinH› I knw about teh DB thing btw
08/08/2006 22:17:30 ‹kevint› well you didnt even expect it to run....
08/08/2006 22:18:05 ‹KevinH› When you 'invert' connections that are level based it will map 20% to 80% as well
08/08/2006 22:18:12 ‹kevint› I have done and on and and off
08/08/2006 22:18:22 ‹kevint› oooh!
08/08/2006 22:18:34 ‹KevinH› back in 2
08/08/2006 22:18:40 ‹kevint› So what are the limitaitions
08/08/2006 22:18:45 ‹kevint› ah ok
08/08/2006 22:19:32 ‹James› so kt, a busy week for you?
08/08/2006 22:20:02 * kevint disconnected (timeout)
08/08/2006 22:20:25 ‹KevinH› U frightened him
08/08/2006 22:20:46 ‹James› oops!
08/08/2006 22:21:21 ‹kevint› Our team at work is 3 engineers and 2 technicians
08/08/2006 22:21:23 ‹kevint› and this week we are down to one engineer and 2 technicians
08/08/2006 22:21:54 ‹James› so the engineers are having to make the tea then
08/08/2006 22:21:57 ‹kevint› we only manage properly wiyth a full team
08/08/2006 22:22:11 * Edward disconnected (timeout)
08/08/2006 22:22:19 ‹kevint› I am just ceam crackered when i get home
08/08/2006 22:22:48 ‹James› i bet
08/08/2006 22:23:23 ‹KevinH› kevint› So what are the limitaitions ... on the PC Mapper application you mean ?
08/08/2006 22:23:26 ‹kevint› so kh the bsc file is source, dest, dest xapuid, invert=1
08/08/2006 22:23:34 ‹kevint› yes
08/08/2006 22:23:58 ‹kevint› how many maps
08/08/2006 22:24:07 ‹KevinH› Well very few - but no looping protection so dont create loops
08/08/2006 22:24:46 ‹KevinH› I don't think you'll hit a limit on # maps
08/08/2006 22:25:05 ‹KevinH› It will be source UID not dest UID
08/08/2006 22:25:05 ‹kevint› where is the config loaded from on startup?
08/08/2006 22:25:16 ‹James› KT, can you logon to http://www.mi4.biz/talk2/ and see if you get timeouts ( in another browser windows of course)
08/08/2006 22:25:26 ‹kevint› is the uid essential?
08/08/2006 22:25:35 ‹KevinH› absolutely
08/08/2006 22:25:46 ‹KevinH› thats the only thing it triggers on
08/08/2006 22:26:28 ‹KevinH› It loads config from the file you create
08/08/2006 22:27:17 ‹KevinH› The 'discover' button is a bit brute force....
08/08/2006 22:27:49 ‹kevint› I have one called test.bsc
08/08/2006 22:28:13 ‹KevinH› You can wildcard targets via the config file should you wish
08/08/2006 22:28:18 ‹KevinH› you do ?
08/08/2006 22:28:26 ‹KevinH› at startup ?
08/08/2006 22:28:48 * KevinH disconnected (timeout)
08/08/2006 22:28:57 ‹kevint› I created it to see what it did and resarted the app and the map was still there
08/08/2006 22:29:21 ‹KevinH› its persisted the last saved file (I think)
08/08/2006 22:29:38 ‹KevinH› You can save as anything
08/08/2006 22:29:47 * kevint disconnected (timeout)
08/08/2006 22:29:56 ‹KevinH› (in the registry)
08/08/2006 22:31:02 ‹kevint› I think I will wait till you and edward have resoved the wildcard thing before trying that
08/08/2006 22:31:04 ‹kevint› ..
08/08/2006 22:31:05 ‹kevint› its all gone away
08/08/2006 22:31:32 ‹kevint› mmm xap talk just stopped updating there
08/08/2006 22:33:11 ‹Edward› On the case...
08/08/2006 22:33:21 ‹KevinH› If you use full wildcards for every positional element - with >'s allowable at the end it works pretty well already.
08/08/2006 22:34:12 ‹kevint› You once explained bsc wildcarding to me but I confess I found it heavy going
08/08/2006 22:34:49 ‹KevinH› I find it really amazing that suddenly applications appear that use some xAP conduit - like the ones that used the SliMP3 one and now the X10 one..
08/08/2006 22:35:10 * Paul G is connected
08/08/2006 22:35:19 ‹Paul G› HELLLOOOOOO!
08/08/2006 22:35:24 ‹Paul G› bit late again
08/08/2006 22:35:46 ‹KevinH› It's pretty easy KT but slightly varied from teh spec based on real world experience as we've played with sub adress a bit more
08/08/2006 22:36:11 ‹kevint› Hi - Ah that wasnt you earlier as G then...
08/08/2006 22:36:25 ‹Paul G› nooo
08/08/2006 22:36:34 ‹Paul G› some imposter obviously
08/08/2006 22:36:42 ‹kevint› hehe
08/08/2006 22:36:51 ‹kevint› he went as i arrived
08/08/2006 22:36:54 ‹James› hi paul
08/08/2006 22:37:10 ‹Paul G› lots of new computer kit to play with - more arriving tomorrow :)
08/08/2006 22:37:25 ‹KevinH› The address is divided into 2 parts by the : and effectively you treat each half independently - a * matches anything in that position but something must be there and a > matches to the end (and will match nothing too)
08/08/2006 22:37:36 ‹KevinH› and a new node0
08/08/2006 22:37:40 ‹kevint› me ducks
08/08/2006 22:37:48 ‹KevinH› and a workshop to die for...
08/08/2006 22:37:59 ‹James› and a cute dog
08/08/2006 22:38:09 ‹kevint› I think you posted a relly good explanation in the group a while back
08/08/2006 22:38:19 ‹Paul G› 2 cute doggies
08/08/2006 22:38:20 ‹kevint› so I will read that
08/08/2006 22:38:41 ‹Paul G› got more agility training tomorrow - good fun
08/08/2006 22:38:59 ‹Paul G› wonder if I can xAP enable that ;)
08/08/2006 22:39:00 ‹KevinH› I have to go in a few mins - got to talk to my neighbours about what wiring to pre install in their new build
08/08/2006 22:39:09 ‹James› agility is more exercise for the owner than the dog
08/08/2006 22:39:09 ‹kevint› how are you going to xAP enable the doggies
08/08/2006 22:39:20 ‹Paul G› insert a chip?
08/08/2006 22:39:24 ‹KevinH› taser ?
08/08/2006 22:39:36 ‹James› gps collars
08/08/2006 22:39:46 ‹Paul G› tell me about it - mad swiss woman keeps threatening to slap me
08/08/2006 22:39:56 ‹Paul G› that's why I keep going!
08/08/2006 22:40:04 ‹kevint› ..
08/08/2006 22:40:05 ‹Paul G› taser!!
08/08/2006 22:40:06 ‹James› (H)
08/08/2006 22:40:11 ‹KevinH› Well that last one is not so silly.... I'm waiting on Steve Wozniacs release of exactly that...
08/08/2006 22:40:24 ‹Paul G› Americans have a training collar that electrocutes them!
08/08/2006 22:40:35 ‹KevinH› Sorry - bad taste
08/08/2006 22:40:49 ‹kevint› I think this chat might need more editting than normal...
08/08/2006 22:40:49 ‹Edward› KH, just emailed you a new X10 plugin
08/08/2006 22:41:01 ‹KevinH› I was just lucky that my last two dogs have been absolutely wonderful obedience wise
08/08/2006 22:41:11 ‹KevinH› Just got it !
08/08/2006 22:41:31 ‹Paul G› James - xAP weather has been playing up again - not updating METARs
08/08/2006 22:41:44 ‹KevinH› I need to investigate dims a bit more as I do have weird rampings but thats for later
08/08/2006 22:41:53 ‹James› what was your code again?
08/08/2006 22:41:57 ‹Paul G› I'm moving it to new PC next week so will prob re-install anyway
08/08/2006 22:42:02 ‹KevinH› E - how many dims are transmitted for 100 - 0 % ?
08/08/2006 22:42:10 ‹Edward› You should set ProDimmer for DIN Rail modules
08/08/2006 22:42:18 ‹James› egva?
08/08/2006 22:42:26 ‹Paul G› hang on...
08/08/2006 22:42:30 ‹KevinH› This is on lmap modules
08/08/2006 22:42:35 ‹Edward› Can't remember :-/
08/08/2006 22:43:03 ‹Edward› CM11 sends blocks of X10 dims
08/08/2006 22:43:04 ‹Paul G› btw can xAP launcher be set to launch in new window?
08/08/2006 22:43:34 ‹KevinH› If I transmit the same Level= command alternately I get Dim+10 and bright+10 commands to X10 - I guess taht's maybe rounding in the /255 levels to X10's 16 I believe
08/08/2006 22:43:34 ‹James› no, but i could add it
08/08/2006 22:43:41 ‹Paul G› yes EGVA
08/08/2006 22:44:02 ‹James› it just calls the windows protocol handler and it launches the browser
08/08/2006 22:44:15 ‹Paul G› would be good - keep moving away from pages I want on screen - that's the trouble with 3 screens - tend to keep loads of pages open!
08/08/2006 22:44:30 ‹Edward› Modules seem to have 180 levels - but CM11 sends blocks so reducing the avalable resolution - but there's a weird tweak to get it to send individual X10 dims
08/08/2006 22:44:32 ‹kevint› KH on the hardware mapper could you make the xapintranet enabling an option
08/08/2006 22:44:34 ‹James› egva 0955 24/7/2006 is the data from the server
08/08/2006 22:44:43 ‹Paul G› EGVA last updated 09:55 25/7/06
08/08/2006 22:44:51 ‹KevinH› That's abrowser config option I believe - at least it is in FireFox
08/08/2006 22:44:53 ‹James› i would try a different feed, ro just shouta t the tower
08/08/2006 22:45:06 ‹KevinH› open in new tab/window
08/08/2006 22:45:08 ‹Paul G› I mean 24/07
08/08/2006 22:45:44 ‹James› Weather is working correctly though
08/08/2006 22:45:51 ‹Paul G› OK - so their data feed is screwed?
08/08/2006 22:45:55 ‹James› just the egva weather station is stuffed
08/08/2006 22:45:58 ‹KevinH› E.. If I move from say 50% to 40% do you send relative commands to get teh dim right - you dont go via 100% do you ?
08/08/2006 22:46:00 ‹Paul G› yes - BBC weather is OK
08/08/2006 22:46:15 ‹Paul G› OK - will find another local one
08/08/2006 22:46:21 ‹James› all the info you see in the windows is straight from the feed
08/08/2006 22:46:29 ‹James› nothing is from weather itself
08/08/2006 22:46:35 ‹Edward› relative unless the state is off or unknown
08/08/2006 22:46:35 ‹Paul G› I now have Oregon weather station as well - just need to mount it up pole
08/08/2006 22:47:02 ‹Edward› ProDimmer sends direct dim commands
08/08/2006 22:47:14 ‹James› so are you buying weather display or making your own app?
08/08/2006 22:47:20 ‹Paul G› and get xAP plugin in 'Weather Display' working
08/08/2006 22:47:25 ‹KevinH› right - I'll play some more and see what I find - teh X10 was remote - couldn't see before so I ahve set up a local lamp now
08/08/2006 22:47:32 ‹kevint› Is prodimer just din rail modeule in the UK?
08/08/2006 22:47:35 ‹Paul G› + Weather Display live - nice
08/08/2006 22:47:52 ‹KevinH› Also - just to clarify - CM12 doesn't have an accesible internal state table does it ?
08/08/2006 22:47:53 ‹James› weather display has the most config options i've ever seen in an app
08/08/2006 22:48:01 ‹Paul G› but main app needs re-writing - crap interface - too many options everywhere
08/08/2006 22:48:06 ‹James› oh, that flash screen, yep it's very nice
08/08/2006 22:48:06 ‹Paul G› lol yes
08/08/2006 22:48:32 ‹Paul G› couldn't get xap option working though
08/08/2006 22:48:42 ‹Paul G› but didn't spend much time on it
08/08/2006 22:48:43 ‹James› also watch the default xAP interval.. i think 1 second is the default which is a lor of xAP
08/08/2006 22:48:56 ‹Edward› I'm in the UK and I have a DIN Rail module - can't speak for anything else
08/08/2006 22:49:01 ‹James› it's just an on/off really
08/08/2006 22:49:30 ‹Paul G› I prob missed on of the 30,000 options!!!
08/08/2006 22:49:40 ‹Edward› CM12 - internal state table - you're joking right?
08/08/2006 22:49:43 ‹James› quite probably
08/08/2006 22:50:08 ‹KevinH› thought so :'(
08/08/2006 22:50:20 ‹Paul G› just started it but no xAP messages
08/08/2006 22:50:50 ‹KevinH› P - haven't got the HS HV plugin working yet but have an open ticket with HS
08/08/2006 22:50:53 ‹kevint› There is an internal scheduler though or is that just in the US version
08/08/2006 22:50:59 ‹KevinH› You have a hub running P ?
08/08/2006 22:51:08 ‹Paul G› UDP 3639 weatherdisplay.weather.1 for source
08/08/2006 22:51:13 ‹James› maybe it needs data from the station before it works
08/08/2006 22:51:32 ‹Paul G› it was connected - but made no difference
08/08/2006 22:51:38 ‹KevinH› or you can at least see other xAP messages in the viewer ?
08/08/2006 22:51:41 ‹James› oh, i think, you need to go in the main config screen to the TCP window and hit the master on
08/08/2006 22:52:07 ‹James› there are a few of those master switches, that really confuse things
08/08/2006 22:52:24 ‹Paul G› where the buggery bollox is that !! ;)
08/08/2006 22:52:47 ‹Paul G› too many options even to display on 1920x1200 screen x 3 !!!
08/08/2006 22:53:15 ‹James› from memory its in the ftp config screen. on one of those tabs
08/08/2006 22:53:21 ‹KevinH› I have to go now - I'll be back later if anyones still around and I will report back on the X10 Edward , what shoudl I be testing ? The wildcarding and the 255/255 ?
08/08/2006 22:54:04 ‹Edward› yes both
08/08/2006 22:54:20 ‹KevinH› right - tks for that.... l8r
08/08/2006 22:54:26 ‹James› bfn
08/08/2006 22:54:36 ‹Paul G› cya
08/08/2006 22:54:38 ‹Edward› internal scheduler - yes, but I've never played with it - that's what xAP's for!
08/08/2006 22:54:51 ‹James› so paul when does the building work all start?
08/08/2006 22:55:22 * kevint disconnected (timeout)
08/08/2006 22:55:26 * Edward disconnected (timeout)
08/08/2006 22:56:10 ‹Paul G› last Architect sketches just being done - structural eng does his bit this week - then main plans drawn up. Then tender to builders - so work MAY start Sept - Oct finished Jan or Feb maybe
08/08/2006 22:56:30 ‹James› a nice winter build then
08/08/2006 22:56:41 ‹kevint› Well I think that only one app ever managed to work out how to do the internal scheduling anyway
08/08/2006 22:57:41 ‹Paul G› yes - but shouldn't be bad hopefully as it's all contained in loft
08/08/2006 22:57:46 ‹kevint› And I think its goodnight from Me
08/08/2006 22:57:58 ‹Paul G› but I'll have to move my office downstairs due to noise
08/08/2006 22:58:03 ‹James› nite
08/08/2006 22:58:05 ‹Paul G› bye Kevin
08/08/2006 22:58:31 * kevint disconnected (timeout)
08/08/2006 22:59:21 ‹James› well all will be good when done
08/08/2006 22:59:33 ‹James› do you get a godd view from up there?
08/08/2006 22:59:59 ‹Edward› The only wildcard fix was to test that the number of elements is equal (or there's a > at the end)
08/08/2006 23:00:22 * Edward disconnected (timeout)
08/08/2006 23:00:55 ‹Paul G› yes very - good view anyway from upstairs, but just clips houses opposite - then miles of view over to white horse on hill
08/08/2006 23:01:00 ‹Paul G› should be stunning
08/08/2006 23:01:11 ‹James› ( i think i've just fixed the timeout problem in this chat.. hopfully next week will be better)
08/08/2006 23:01:17 ‹Paul G› esp with balcony Velux windows
08/08/2006 23:01:24 ‹James› well i guess you be taking load of picks
08/08/2006 23:01:34 ‹James› pics
08/08/2006 23:02:40 ‹Paul G› yes - that's the plan + new node0 pics
08/08/2006 23:02:59 ‹Paul G› decisions - whether to upgrade X10 to CBus - could be expensive!
08/08/2006 23:03:16 ‹James› just get RM to pay for it
08/08/2006 23:03:43 ‹James› if i could i woul dlove to ditch x10
08/08/2006 23:03:50 ‹Paul G› lol - I'll just add a few more days to the odd project here and there
08/08/2006 23:03:53 * Edward is connected
08/08/2006 23:04:01 ‹James› indeed
08/08/2006 23:04:29 ‹Paul G› X10 here is OK - for LD11's as the TX is in the enclosure - but to sockets it's very unreliable
08/08/2006 23:05:02 ‹Paul G› Is the CBUS shop one of Li's?
08/08/2006 23:06:28 ‹James› well the IP is close to laser.com so i guesss yes
08/08/2006 23:07:11 ‹Paul G› yes - just looked at contact info
08/08/2006 23:07:23 ‹Paul G› He said would give me very good prices :)
08/08/2006 23:07:39 ‹James› a true salesman
08/08/2006 23:07:53 ‹Paul G› but maybe too expensive with fancy wall controllers at £190 each!
08/08/2006 23:08:02 ‹Paul G› cost prices!!!
08/08/2006 23:08:18 ‹James› :-)
08/08/2006 23:09:14 ‹Paul G› could be nearly £3k for the cheaper switches alone!
08/08/2006 23:10:18 ‹James› yep, the smart switches soon add up.
08/08/2006 23:10:48 ‹James› so can the dimmers take switch inputs like the x10 din modules do?
08/08/2006 23:11:13 ‹Paul G› 240V inputs?
08/08/2006 23:11:16 ‹Paul G› not sure
08/08/2006 23:11:32 ‹Paul G› or are you thinking using current switches?
08/08/2006 23:11:38 ‹James› Local ON/OFF toggle buttons allow individual channels to be manually overridden at each unit. Remote ON and OFF facility permits all channels to be turned ON or OFF without C-Bus network communication.
08/08/2006 23:11:40 ‹Paul G› that would work
08/08/2006 23:12:06 ‹Paul G› mmm - have to ask Dean or Li
08/08/2006 23:12:20 ‹Paul G› Doesn't Kevin have CBus too?
08/08/2006 23:12:31 ‹James› i could see me installing the dimmers, but i don't think i'd ever do the switches
08/08/2006 23:12:39 ‹James› KH does, yes
08/08/2006 23:12:51 ‹Paul G› ...or add one or two as and when you could afford?
08/08/2006 23:13:02 ‹James› yep
08/08/2006 23:13:21 ‹James› or use a xAP netiom and KH's cbus<>xap connector
08/08/2006 23:15:09 ‹Paul G› yes - that's an idea
08/08/2006 23:15:15 ‹Paul G› well - got to go - see you later
08/08/2006 23:15:28 ‹James› bye
08/08/2006 23:16:12 ‹Paul G› cya