xAP Talk Transcript 2006 10 31

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15:06:16 ‹Paul G› :-[:-[:-[:-[:-[:-[:-[
31/10/2006 15:06:28 ‹Paul G› :-[:-[:-[ WoooooooOOOOOoooooOOOOooooo!
31/10/2006 15:06:39 ‹Paul G› (6)(6)(6)(6)
31/10/2006 15:06:41 ‹kevint› evening
31/10/2006 15:06:47 ‹kevint› being creative I see
31/10/2006 15:06:49 ‹Paul G› Heloooo
31/10/2006 15:06:52 ‹Paul G› lol
31/10/2006 15:06:56 ‹Paul G› themed!
31/10/2006 15:07:22 ‹kevint› well weve had two lots of kids around
31/10/2006 15:07:45 ‹James› (6) 'lo
31/10/2006 15:08:06 ‹Paul G› We've had loads - first time in years - but didn't answer as we didn't have anything to give them! ba Humbug
31/10/2006 15:08:07 ‹kevint› Hi J
31/10/2006 15:08:30 ‹James› Hi K long time no talk
31/10/2006 15:08:32 ‹Paul G› bins are prob spread around the street now
31/10/2006 15:08:35 ‹kevint› I have an orange buckt full of jelly sweets here...
31/10/2006 15:09:13 ‹Paul G› ...which you'll end up eating yourself!
31/10/2006 15:09:19 ‹James› barking dog sound effects here
31/10/2006 15:09:32 ‹Paul G› real barking dogs here!
31/10/2006 15:09:37 ‹kevint› Yes, sorry, had a shutdown at work for the last month or so and its been a bit busy, plus ageing parents are a bit of a worry
31/10/2006 15:10:03 ‹kevint› my barking dos are less expennsive.. ;)
31/10/2006 15:10:13 ‹kevint› dogs that is
31/10/2006 15:10:26 ‹James› and they dont need wlaks
31/10/2006 15:10:34 ‹kevint› ;)
31/10/2006 15:10:59 ‹kevint› I see I have some catching up to do, what with your apps and TSC
31/10/2006 15:11:07 ‹Paul G› yeah wlaks are really expensive! ;)
31/10/2006 15:11:37 ‹kevint› ;)
31/10/2006 15:11:42 ‹James› i got a bulk deal on wlaks
31/10/2006 15:11:46 * KevinH joins My room
31/10/2006 15:12:09 ‹kevint› I have been amusing myself since the wekend though and have dusted off my VB bit
31/10/2006 15:12:12 ‹James› and the K's are back together
31/10/2006 15:12:16 ‹kevint› bits
31/10/2006 15:12:23 ‹kevint› Hi K
31/10/2006 15:12:46 ‹James› so are you planning a new app then?
31/10/2006 15:12:46 ‹Paul G› :-[:-[:-[:-[:-[:-[(6)(6):-[:-[:-[:-[:-[
31/10/2006 15:12:47 ‹kevint› I have a YAQ app ;)
31/10/2006 15:12:51 ‹KevinH› Hi all
31/10/2006 15:13:01 ‹Paul G› sorry - too tempting
31/10/2006 15:13:11 ‹James› (dog) woof
31/10/2006 15:13:27 ‹KevinH› +o(
31/10/2006 15:13:52 ‹kevint› as in Yet Another Quasar App
31/10/2006 15:14:28 ‹Paul G› Hey J - how's the xAP Speech mod coming on?  ;)
31/10/2006 15:14:32 ‹James› that is the temp sensor thing?
31/10/2006 15:14:49 ‹KevinH› .. actually I have an unreleased Quasar app too - it was teh first BSC app I wrote
31/10/2006 15:15:13 ‹kevint› its running here doing bsc and Edwards xap-temp.notification and a web server courtesy of xapintranet.ocx
31/10/2006 15:15:18 ‹James› um, it's not exactly started so it's not quite finished
31/10/2006 15:15:34 ‹kevint› yes 4 temperatures
31/10/2006 15:16:39 ‹KevinH› J - an update on my frustrations and this is going to be awkward... my app is only crashing when the debugger is loaded...
31/10/2006 15:16:42 ‹kevint› I have been looking at the TSC spec that I was sent some time ago ( about a month I guess )
31/10/2006 15:17:12 ‹James› so step one is to not use a debugger
31/10/2006 15:17:16 ‹kevint› has it been updated or have any of you participated in the discussion?
31/10/2006 15:17:40 ‹KevinH› I have long promised Lehane a written reply to that as I have some concerns there
31/10/2006 15:17:45 ‹James› there is a new doc on teh way, lehane mentioned recently on xapauto
31/10/2006 15:18:28 ‹kevint› I gues my questions initially wer wether I= was needed for events and infos and
31/10/2006 15:18:29 ‹KevinH› One of the first steps is to get it out under a TSC (not xAPTSC) class for a while
31/10/2006 15:19:19 ‹kevint› wether setpoint was required for devices that only reported as opposed to controlled
31/10/2006 15:19:21 ‹KevinH› J - If I jettison the debugger I can never use it again so I need it really
31/10/2006 15:19:47 ‹James› oh, you dont' want to remove it then
31/10/2006 15:19:50 ‹kevint› wether ID=
31/10/2006 15:20:29 ‹James› I think there was a reason for it, but cant rememeber what
31/10/2006 15:20:41 ‹KevinH› can't evenKT - you're going to need Lehane on thsi I think... he usually appears around 10pm - unfortunately I've only got around half an hour more
31/10/2006 15:20:44 ‹James› it was mentioned in a previous xaptalk
31/10/2006 15:20:56 ‹kevint› BSC doesnt require it for events and infos I think
31/10/2006 15:21:06 ‹James› no just .cmd
31/10/2006 15:21:09 ‹James› and query
31/10/2006 15:21:27 ‹James› did anyone notice
31/10/2006 15:21:37 ‹James› the xap talk on the mi4 home page
31/10/2006 15:21:51 ‹James› I got it to display the current members :-)
31/10/2006 15:21:52 ‹kevint› OK I will ask again later
31/10/2006 15:22:05 * kevint joins My room
31/10/2006 15:22:16 ‹Paul G› Far too much time on your hands J ;)
31/10/2006 15:22:16 ‹KevinH› ID= was a kludge in BSC to regain the ability to address several endpoints simultaneously in one message without having repeating parameter names
31/10/2006 15:22:19 ‹Paul G› lol
31/10/2006 15:22:52 ‹KevinH› In effect it was the xAP 'block addressing' that is in teh current spec but under a much simpler guise
31/10/2006 15:23:33 ‹KevinH› so it does...
31/10/2006 15:24:03 ‹kevint› very nice J
31/10/2006 15:24:27 ‹KevinH› it doesn't display the participants colours though J - can I file that as a feature request ;-)
31/10/2006 15:24:49 ‹James› everyone has different colours, it's a client thing
31/10/2006 15:24:55 ‹kevint› So what colour do you think you are KH?
31/10/2006 15:25:00 ‹Paul G› ...and maybe feed through to xAP Desktop??  ;)
31/10/2006 15:25:09 ‹KevinH› Royal Blue here
31/10/2006 15:25:19 ‹kevint› green here
31/10/2006 15:25:23 ‹Paul G› You're grey here!
31/10/2006 15:25:31 ‹Paul G› I'm green
31/10/2006 15:25:34 ‹James› blue/green here
31/10/2006 15:25:35 ‹KevinH› ... and here :-(
31/10/2006 15:25:41 ‹James› paul is very very grey
31/10/2006 15:25:48 ‹kevint› Its good to know we can have serious conversations here ;)
31/10/2006 15:25:53 ‹Paul G› ...not boring though!
31/10/2006 15:26:02 ‹James› it was paul and his bats that started it
31/10/2006 15:26:10 ‹Paul G› so....xAP DMX - what fun!
31/10/2006 15:26:13 ‹James› :-)
31/10/2006 15:26:17 ‹Paul G› :-[
31/10/2006 15:26:28 ‹Paul G› they've mostly flown away now :(
31/10/2006 15:26:33 ‹kevint› so I am looking for a beta tester for my quasar app.....
31/10/2006 15:26:38 ‹KevinH› Yes - I have used it a little here (DMX)
31/10/2006 15:26:53 ‹Paul G› easy to setup and use?
31/10/2006 15:26:58 ‹James› paul, don't know if this is of any use : http://www.henrys.co.uk/disco/ULTIMACP-30LEDCOLOURPODSYSTEM.html
31/10/2006 15:27:21 ‹KevinH› main issue is that if you get a fault and DMX comms goed down then all your lights go out
31/10/2006 15:27:30 ‹Paul G› oh!
31/10/2006 15:27:37 ‹kevint› it is , if you have a quasar 3145 or equivilant
31/10/2006 15:27:42 ‹Paul G› but it will only be for fancy accent lighting
31/10/2006 15:27:51 ‹James› good DMX kit will remember it's last command
31/10/2006 15:28:02 ‹KevinH› (although I think J said there were ways around this - fancier devices or secondary BU controllers
31/10/2006 15:28:25 ‹KevinH› Also you tend to only be able to have one controller
31/10/2006 15:28:29 ‹Paul G› Thanks J - looking for long bar, continuous LED RGB light - rather than spot
31/10/2006 15:28:40 ‹James› k
31/10/2006 15:28:45 ‹kevint› CAn I just ask abput xAPTSC and TSC
31/10/2006 15:28:48 ‹James› you can have inline controllers
31/10/2006 15:29:14 ‹Paul G› http://www.3dzled.com/lighttubes.html
31/10/2006 15:29:24 ‹Paul G› these look good - and are cheap!
31/10/2006 15:29:35 ‹kevint› I understand that schema prefixed xAP are "official" and "core" schema
31/10/2006 15:30:12 ‹James› i wonder how bright those are
31/10/2006 15:30:36 ‹kevint› but if the original central committee is not functioning at the moment how do you decide when TSC becomes xAPTSC
31/10/2006 15:30:43 ‹KevinH› yes - no-one can issue a schema starting xAP without it being 'approved' by the steering committee but that needs reconsidering given current circumstances
31/10/2006 15:31:14 ‹KevinH› The idea was to prove a schema by it being available for a few months and then endorse it and add a xAP prefix
31/10/2006 15:31:19 ‹Paul G› umm - couldn't find data on output lumens etc IIRC
31/10/2006 15:31:19 ‹James› just a different committee but same concept
31/10/2006 15:31:42 ‹KevinH› BSC didnt quite go that route but the discussion that wenta round it was onerous
31/10/2006 15:31:53 ‹James› looks quite heavily frosted which can really dim light outputs
31/10/2006 15:31:54 ‹kevint› I think xAP talk is the cloest thing to a steering group that we have right now
31/10/2006 15:32:19 ‹Paul G› yes - but frosting is prob crucial for RGB mixing
31/10/2006 15:32:21 ‹James› We could just use the dev-group and put it to a vote
31/10/2006 15:33:03 ‹KevinH› We do need to be careful on these issues as you need the people who have votes to be known to have thought it through
31/10/2006 15:33:52 ‹James› all stems from having the schema in a document for all to look at publicly
31/10/2006 15:33:53 ‹KevinH› I still like the methodology of releasing something, revising/proving it and then endorsing it
31/10/2006 15:34:09 ‹James› yes, agreed
31/10/2006 15:34:12 ‹kevint› One view would be that since BSC was well established and that TSC was following many of BSC's constructs then the debate need be less onerous
31/10/2006 15:34:37 ‹James› especially is you go in to using the schema knwoing the initial part of teh schema will change
31/10/2006 15:35:06 ‹James› yes the only debate will be some of the syntax
31/10/2006 15:35:17 ‹KevinH› I do have some issues with TSC as it is currently... but as I haven't written them up I feel I'm not on very solid ground making such a comment
31/10/2006 15:35:53 ‹KevinH› I will get that done asap
31/10/2006 15:35:56 ‹James› its a very good start, as is though
31/10/2006 15:36:05 ‹KevinH› yes agreed
31/10/2006 15:36:05 ‹kevint› Well I am in the same boat ;)
31/10/2006 15:36:17 ‹kevint› I agree, a sound start
31/10/2006 15:36:46 ‹James› I'm jsut thinking of two K's in a boat at night..
31/10/2006 15:37:20 ‹KevinH› Jerome K Jerome would be two J's and a K
31/10/2006 15:37:29 ‹kevint› there is apoem about that I think
31/10/2006 15:37:39 ‹James› :-[
31/10/2006 15:37:43 ‹KevinH› Bags me the owl
31/10/2006 15:37:43 ‹KevinH› Bags me the owl
31/10/2006 15:38:29 * kevint joins My room
31/10/2006 15:38:51 ‹kevint› so advice J if you would
31/10/2006 15:39:49 * James joins My room
31/10/2006 15:40:17 ‹kevint› for the web page for my quasar app I have the 4 temperatures with descriptions values and engineering units
31/10/2006 15:40:28 ‹KevinH› talk's gone a bit funny
31/10/2006 15:40:38 ‹kevint› and it refreshes every minute
31/10/2006 15:40:45 ‹kevint› yep
31/10/2006 15:40:45 ‹James› very funny
31/10/2006 15:41:04 ‹Paul G› seems ok here - maybe it's demons!
31/10/2006 15:41:12 ‹James› i blame bats
31/10/2006 15:41:14 ‹kevint› bats
31/10/2006 15:41:25 ‹Paul G› (@) ... not cats then?
31/10/2006 15:41:33 ‹KevinH› PG I may have a few iCoves spare that I could have my arm twisted on..
31/10/2006 15:41:39 ‹James› ok, so 4 temps, text labels and units
31/10/2006 15:41:57 ‹James› no cats, only dogs
31/10/2006 15:41:59 ‹KevinH› ..I also have some flourescent style (6 fooot long RGB tubes) that are DMX
31/10/2006 15:42:02 ‹Paul G› Is there anything you don't have K ;) - cool - which models are they?
31/10/2006 15:42:05 ‹kevint› I am currently using a meta refresh to update the display
31/10/2006 15:42:11 ‹KevinH› but only a set number of colours
31/10/2006 15:42:15 ‹kevint› whicj is ok, ish
31/10/2006 15:42:26 ‹Paul G› got a URL for any of them?
31/10/2006 15:42:30 ‹kevint› but not as nice as ajax on xFP
31/10/2006 15:42:57 ‹KevinH› no idea - they're part of that bulk buy a while back - about 18" long I think
31/10/2006 15:43:23 ‹kevint› so how difficult is it to make it a s pretty as your apps
31/10/2006 15:43:41 ‹KevinH› finding them could be a big issue though...
31/10/2006 15:44:02 ‹kevint› they will be in the loft of the place next door
31/10/2006 15:44:04 ‹Paul G› sound very interesting
31/10/2006 15:44:09 ‹kevint› ;)
31/10/2006 15:44:12 ‹KevinH› I'll see what I can finand email u in due course
31/10/2006 15:44:21 ‹Paul G› DON'T GO IN THE LOFT TONIGHT!!!!
31/10/2006 15:44:31 ‹KevinH› I dont think I will have enough for you though
31/10/2006 15:44:31 ‹Paul G› bad things happen in lofts ;)


31/10/2006 15:44:38 ‹James› ajax is not so bad let me sort some code out for you. basically you make a web page with a
element and javascript to poll the server for the contents for that div


31/10/2006 15:44:44 ‹kevint› on halloween
31/10/2006 15:45:02 ‹Paul G› OK - I have a number of places I need lighting - anything considered
31/10/2006 15:45:03 ‹kevint› thanks, I appreciate that
31/10/2006 15:45:17 ‹Paul G› :-[
31/10/2006 15:45:19 ‹Paul G› :-[
31/10/2006 15:45:32 ‹Paul G› they're coming back...
31/10/2006 15:45:36 ‹KevinH› KT - Ajax is really quite easy - there are some good examples/tutorials on the net
31/10/2006 15:46:14 ‹KevinH› I even got some rudimentary stuff on teh Rabbit -a lthough J shot some holes in it pretty quickly
31/10/2006 15:46:26 ‹kevint› I will have a look, do you have any suggestins for urls
31/10/2006 15:47:27 ‹KevinH› http://dhtmlnirvana.com/ajax/ajax_tutorial/
31/10/2006 15:47:44 ‹kevint› Thank you
31/10/2006 15:47:46 * KevinH joins My room
31/10/2006 15:49:57 ‹KevinH› I used the following quite a bit...
31/10/2006 15:50:00 ‹KevinH› www-128.ibm.com/develo ... sp?search_by=Mastering+Ajax
31/10/2006 15:50:20 ‹KevinH› www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/views/web/libraryview.jsp?search_by=Mastering+Ajax
31/10/2006 15:50:37 ‹KevinH› its a slow site though
31/10/2006 15:51:18 ‹James› kt you have mail
31/10/2006 15:51:49 ‹kevint› thanks both of you
31/10/2006 15:52:29 ‹KevinH› I have to go in a few mins - I'll sort the other matter out with you by email PG - now I know it's still ok
31/10/2006 15:52:49 ‹kevint› seven parts
31/10/2006 15:53:03 ‹Paul G› Yes, thanks K
31/10/2006 15:53:09 ‹kevint› normally I read the manual after I have got it working ;)
31/10/2006 15:53:22 ‹KevinH› The parts repeat an awful lot
31/10/2006 15:53:24 ‹James› -) me too
31/10/2006 15:53:51 ‹KevinH› I couldn't find teh ON switch even though
31/10/2006 15:53:59 ‹Paul G› sounds very cryptic that! ... I think we go in through the vault wall - don't forget the welding torch!
31/10/2006 15:54:28 ‹James› i'm confused now
31/10/2006 15:54:52 ‹kevint› I bet KH is off to watch robot cars in the desert
31/10/2006 15:55:08 ‹Paul G› oooh - is that on now?
31/10/2006 15:55:16 ‹kevint› Recieved J , ta
31/10/2006 15:55:16 ‹KevinH› Nope - I have visitors - I was given an hours leave
31/10/2006 15:55:17 ‹James› ?
31/10/2006 15:55:28 ‹James› only 1hour
31/10/2006 15:55:37 ‹kevint› it is where I llive....
31/10/2006 15:57:38 ‹kevint› sounds like short rations to me....
31/10/2006 15:58:24 ‹Paul G› right - I have to go too - see you later
31/10/2006 15:58:32 ‹Paul G› :-[:-[:-[:-[:-[:-[:-[:-[:-[:-[:-[:-[:-[:-[:-[
31/10/2006 15:58:33 ‹James› bfn
31/10/2006 15:58:41 ‹Paul G› cya
31/10/2006 15:58:50 ‹kevint› bye
31/10/2006 15:59:09 ‹kevint› J are youwatching the yahoo group?
31/10/2006 15:59:37 ‹James› havn't yet today
31/10/2006 16:00:00 * Paul G quit (timeout)
31/10/2006 16:00:24 ‹kevint› some problems with intranet apps
31/10/2006 16:00:46 ‹James› fun fun fun
31/10/2006 16:01:13 ‹kevint› ;)
31/10/2006 16:51:43 * elperepat joins My room
31/10/2006 16:52:37 ‹elperepat› anybody still here? I know, I'm late ;-)
31/10/2006 16:53:11 ‹James› hi
31/10/2006 16:55:15 ‹elperepat› hey! I just have a small question. I'm almost ready to begin my xap programming, but I can't find java examples anymore. I think there was some on Patrick Lidstone website, but I can't access it since about a month ago.
31/10/2006 16:55:43 ‹elperepat› Is there any mirror anywhere else?
31/10/2006 16:57:04 ‹James› He is around and was going to tlook at teh site, probably the best idea is to send him a message, you can do that through the yahoo members list. I'm sure he will send you what you need
31/10/2006 16:57:38 ‹James› afaik there are no mirrors of the java stuff
31/10/2006 16:57:45 ‹elperepat› Thank you!
31/10/2006 16:57:57 ‹James› np
31/10/2006 17:01:21 ‹elperepat› See ya! I'll come back with details about my window shades when I have a working installation, or if I face an xAP difficulty :-) Thanks for your help!
31/10/2006 17:01:57 ‹James› cool look forward to it


31/10/2006 17:05:15 * elperepat quit (timeout)