xAP Talk Transcript 2006 10 10

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10/10/2006 15:04:11 ‹James› hello
10/10/2006 15:07:06 * Gregg joins My room
10/10/2006 15:07:42 ‹Gregg› Hi James
10/10/2006 15:07:49 ‹James› hi Gregg
10/10/2006 15:08:03 ‹Gregg› Your jabber conduit is way awesome!!
10/10/2006 15:08:15 ‹James›  :-)
10/10/2006 15:08:19 ‹Gregg› I finally installed the "working" version after too long a delay from the early betas
10/10/2006 15:08:31 ‹James› wana play with the bot then?
10/10/2006 15:08:37 ‹James› mi4.biz/4.zip
10/10/2006 15:08:43 ‹Gregg› Logged in securely to my work jabber server which connects securely to my personal server which hosts the bot
10/10/2006 15:08:47 ‹Gregg› yes
10/10/2006 15:09:47 ‹James› it is a lovely thing how jabber server inter link
10/10/2006 15:10:19 ‹Gregg› Absolutely. And, ironically, I just added a ton of new xAP infrastructure into mh--particularly a lot of new xAP message display routing
10/10/2006 15:10:35 ‹Gregg› Ok--so, I have your zip--put it anywhere?
10/10/2006 15:10:48 ‹James› there's a readme in it
10/10/2006 15:11:04 ‹Gregg› So, I have to read before playing  ;)
10/10/2006 15:11:23 ‹James› just a little
10/10/2006 15:11:51 ‹James› It is really designed to run along side switchboard,weather,jabber and floorplan
10/10/2006 15:13:34 ‹Gregg› Yes--it just answered my weather query. Very nice!!
10/10/2006 15:13:40 ‹James› it will be an app that will really develop over time. Dealing with natural language is really quite tricky
10/10/2006 15:13:54 ‹Gregg› So, is there some sort of scripting or customization capability that will allow it to talk to anything else?
10/10/2006 15:14:08 ‹Gregg› I'd like to be able to interrogate mh w/ all sorts of questions
10/10/2006 15:14:25 ‹James› the language is set in the db.txt but the actual linking is internal
10/10/2006 15:14:47 ‹Gregg› oh--so, external queries are not allowed/planned?
10/10/2006 15:15:00 ‹James› for floorplan and switchboard it does an http query to the and the floorplan/swtchboard return an html page with the data in it
10/10/2006 15:15:04 ‹Gregg› I think that this is a plot to get me to use floorplan  ;)
10/10/2006 15:15:13 ‹James› that can easily be extended to mh
10/10/2006 15:15:19 ‹Gregg› which is now working
10/10/2006 15:16:14 ‹James› so when it asks Switchboard for details on a person it does an http://ip:port/full_four.xsp?st=contact&qu=<Persons name> request
10/10/2006 15:17:25 ‹James› i used http as it gave synchronous access to the remote data and can return any amount of data
10/10/2006 15:17:50 ‹James› data is simply a list of Item=Value pairs with opening and closing tags
10/10/2006 15:19:00 ‹Gregg› so, I see the generic FP "hooks" for running scripts... Can FP be used to separately interrogate via xAP and respond w/ the results of some xAP response?
10/10/2006 15:19:43 ‹James› not yet but i'll add it to teh todo
10/10/2006 15:20:14 ‹Gregg› Well, it's definitely the "carrot" to have me become fluent w/ FP
10/10/2006 15:20:51 ‹James› but it would be nice to get it to talk to MMH too
10/10/2006 15:21:30 ‹Gregg› right--well, I was assuming that might be possible indirectly via FP. A more direct route would be preferable.
10/10/2006 15:21:44 ‹James› 'show interfaces' is a useful command as is 'reload db'
10/10/2006 15:21:46 ‹Gregg› Are you considering SOAP in addition to your existing querying capability
10/10/2006 15:22:16 ‹James› a GET api would be probable.
10/10/2006 15:22:28 ‹James› POST is a little awkward at teh mo
10/10/2006 15:22:28 ‹Gregg› wrt SB--can it run as a service?
10/10/2006 15:22:40 ‹James› yep
10/10/2006 15:22:53 ‹James› programs > mi4.biz > services
10/10/2006 15:22:58 * Kevin H joins My room
10/10/2006 15:23:16 ‹James› hi K
10/10/2006 15:23:31 ‹Gregg› And, if I were to want to use the intranet form of access to SB--would that still be possible w/ a service install?
10/10/2006 15:23:45 ‹Kevin H› hi all
10/10/2006 15:23:53 ‹Gregg› Hi Kevin
10/10/2006 15:24:21 ‹James› yep, that was the main reason for the web based nature of the intranet apps. so they could be accessed from anywhere
10/10/2006 15:24:46 ‹Gregg› so, is there any reason not to use a service install?
10/10/2006 15:24:49 ‹James› onyl thing you don't get with a service install is the tray icon and baloon tooltips
10/10/2006 15:24:58 ‹James› none at all
10/10/2006 15:25:03 ‹Gregg› oh--that's not an issue
10/10/2006 15:25:19 ‹Gregg› ok--I'll definitely give the SB service a try
10/10/2006 15:25:38 ‹Gregg› back to your xAP bot ...
10/10/2006 15:25:45 ‹James› yep
10/10/2006 15:26:03 ‹Gregg› can you control the targetting/routing of the messages that are sent out? say via the JID?
10/10/2006 15:26:32 ‹James› the bot only responds to the person that asked the question
10/10/2006 15:26:32 ‹Gregg› i.e., can JIDs map to endpoints?
10/10/2006 15:26:59 ‹James› oh, as in targetting displaty messages
10/10/2006 15:27:07 ‹Gregg› Yes
10/10/2006 15:27:30 ‹James› It's xAP jabber that does all that not the bot. I'll have to add teh feature, but it won't be hard
10/10/2006 15:28:21 ‹Gregg› It was more of a question than a definite request. I could see the possibility of a benefit--especially if say multiple family members were bot-users
10/10/2006 15:29:03 ‹James› you can just send xAP messaegs to a jid at the moment if you want
10/10/2006 15:29:19 * James joins My room
10/10/2006 15:29:30 ‹Gregg› oh, I'm seeing something about the return of the weather report that seems a bit odd
10/10/2006 15:30:07 ‹Gregg› Doesn't xAP weather allow prefs for units e.g., F vc C?
10/10/2006 15:30:27 ‹Gregg› It's reporting C--causing me to half to do math  ;)
10/10/2006 15:30:30 ‹James› oh how i kenw that would come up
10/10/2006 15:30:36 ‹Kevin H› Remind me - whats F ?  ;-)
10/10/2006 15:30:56 ‹Gregg› it's what the nut jobs over the pond use
10/10/2006 15:31:08 ‹James› It's Four and it's hardcoded to C , that ones is on the top of the todo
10/10/2006 15:31:29 ‹Gregg› I figured it was a plot to make learn the metric system once and for all
10/10/2006 15:31:32 ‹Kevin H› We still half use it... it's very difficult to chnage
10/10/2006 15:31:46 ‹James› Gregg, I just lost the history of this chat, could you do a select all of the chat window and email it to me?
10/10/2006 15:32:00 ‹James› Using C and mph is really odd
10/10/2006 15:32:28 ‹Kevin H› gallons and litres too
10/10/2006 15:33:02 ‹James› and our alotment is in Rods
10/10/2006 15:33:05 ‹Kevin H› and we've only had a decimal currency for 30 years
10/10/2006 15:34:39 ‹Gregg› well--the message.display support alone makes xAP-bot absolutly fantastic--especially for those of us that are jabber-only users
10/10/2006 15:34:37 ‹James› So is the stress of last week over for you K?
10/10/2006 15:35:03 ‹Kevin H› Greg - sorry a real 'not clued up' Q - how extensive is the xAP support in MH currently ?
10/10/2006 15:35:25 ‹James› Jabber is the perfect protocol for realtime data over teh internet.
10/10/2006 15:35:29 ‹Gregg› it doubled since the last release  ;)
10/10/2006 15:35:44 ‹Kevin H› That's great - I knida hoped it would  :-)
10/10/2006 15:35:48 ‹Gregg› which means I've been ignoring other stand-alone xAP apps
10/10/2006 15:36:04 ‹Gregg› but, it's now very significant
10/10/2006 15:36:31 ‹Gregg› and, yes, I know I need to submit a wiki entry for it
10/10/2006 15:36:41 ‹James› (Gregg, was there any more chat history in you browser, it should go back tot he start?)
10/10/2006 15:37:07 ‹Kevin H› Are there aspects of xAP evolvement still that are hindering this (aside from the UID) ?
10/10/2006 15:37:28 ‹Gregg› sorry--didn't see the scrollbar James
10/10/2006 15:37:56 ‹Gregg› Kevin--I would tend to say some more official means of transaction "acking"
10/10/2006 15:38:15 ‹Gregg› as most of the users are paranoid over the possibility of not getting acknowledgement
10/10/2006 15:38:22 ‹Kevin H› Ahh yes - thsi was intertwined with sequencing..
10/10/2006 15:38:43 ‹Gregg› I'm about to add the "special" header tag to my stuff; but, that only goes so far
10/10/2006 15:39:02 ‹Kevin H› James - am I right that current xAP hubs based on xFX are stripping unexpected header parameters ?
10/10/2006 15:39:02 ‹Gregg› It's not really a huge issue and realistically it's not keeping me from getting useful stuff done
10/10/2006 15:39:26 ‹James› kh, yes other than the testXX= ones
10/10/2006 15:39:36 ‹Gregg› The UID issue is effectively already addressed; I'll have to rip out my many virtual device support in mh once the official version comes out
10/10/2006 15:39:54 ‹Kevin H› ... and did E's recent source code discoveries help us at all in our quest to change this - and the UID's ?
10/10/2006 15:40:19 ‹James› yes, he has the source of a hub and teh xFx itself. not viewer though
10/10/2006 15:40:37 ‹James› he is converting it to .net 2
10/10/2006 15:40:42 ‹Kevin H› The virtual devices work around is really horrid though - don't know why I ever though 254 was enough
10/10/2006 15:40:46 ‹James› just as .net 3 comes out ;-)
10/10/2006 15:41:11 ‹Gregg› heh--I finally ported one of our major apps to .net 2; that was enough
10/10/2006 15:41:20 ‹Kevin H› So we could have a new UID / new paramater tolerant hub at least ?
10/10/2006 15:41:37 ‹Kevin H› a service one ?
10/10/2006 15:41:58 ‹Gregg› From my perspective, Patrick's hubs are equally important to be compatible
10/10/2006 15:42:23 ‹Kevin H› I think P's hubs will already pass just about anything wont they ?
10/10/2006 15:42:27 ‹Gregg› As I have more of them running than the xFx one
10/10/2006 15:42:34 ‹James› K, yes and yes and yes
10/10/2006 15:42:43 ‹Gregg› Yes--but isn't there this new UID issue?
10/10/2006 15:42:55 ‹Kevin H› Can you try extending the UID and see if it passes through ?
10/10/2006 15:43:12 ‹Kevin H› and also adding a parameter to the header ?
10/10/2006 15:43:15 ‹Gregg› and, for what it's work, mh implements it's own hub by default--which will also need upgrading
10/10/2006 15:43:21 ‹Gregg› yes
10/10/2006 15:43:26 ‹James› any uid over 8 is blocked
10/10/2006 15:43:26 ‹Kevin H› and lastly adding a body to a heartbeat ?
10/10/2006 15:43:37 ‹Kevin H› In P's ?
10/10/2006 15:43:42 ‹James› yes please, hbeat bodies are a good plan
10/10/2006 15:43:47 ‹Gregg› Is that part documented anywhere? Yes--I can do it; just curious
10/10/2006 15:44:16 ‹James› P's doesn't care it just passes a messages as a block. xFx breaks them apart, stores them and the sends them
10/10/2006 15:44:47 ‹Kevin H› We were tring to segment 'routing' type data and payload type data by adding a hertbet body for things like 'advertised features' like xAp intranet - config etc
10/10/2006 15:44:57 ‹Gregg› mh's hub does the same--just a repeater
10/10/2006 15:45:12 ‹Gregg› oh--that sounds quite useful
10/10/2006 15:45:56 ‹Kevin H› So P's is workable with new UID's - extra header params and hertbet bodies - i Kind thought it might - in fact I'm surprised it filters anything once it uses port 3639 - which has turned out quite useful
10/10/2006 15:46:43 ‹James› the only issue with P's is the lack over service support and that it doesn't jump to 49152 it just uses 3640+
10/10/2006 15:47:10 ‹Gregg› uhhh---service support??? I only run it on *nix systems
10/10/2006 15:47:22 ‹Kevin H› If E couyld get a xFX service hub out as well that would be great - shame about viewer - I emailed SB last week - no reply...
10/10/2006 15:47:59 ‹Kevin H› Ahh we changed that to just get out of teh ephemeral port range - no big issue but not tidy
10/10/2006 15:48:57 ‹James› I updated the spec last week to show that as it still said use 3640+
10/10/2006 15:49:31 ‹Kevin H› I have asked Mark (session documentor) for notes on the ACK and SEQ discussions we had but nothing so far - do you remember the discussion J ?
10/10/2006 15:49:50 ‹Kevin H› There are some BSC updates I still must do too....
10/10/2006 15:50:36 ‹James› Other that it used an extra header item. So it was quite simple really
10/10/2006 15:51:38 ‹Gregg› presumably, hubs don't touch either of those--right?
10/10/2006 15:52:08 ‹James› well xFx hubs would
10/10/2006 15:52:05 ‹Gregg› just the original sender and then the "ACK-er"
10/10/2006 15:52:16 ‹James› yes
10/10/2006 15:52:17 ‹Kevin H› AFAIK - the 'xAP steering committee' is probably no longer sufficiently involved to approve or object to a spec change so if we can get some good agreement here - ie I think UID is pretty agreed we should just do it (after notice)
10/10/2006 15:52:21 ‹Gregg› should then?
10/10/2006 15:52:52 ‹Kevin H› Wer can't just launch a xAPTSC schema though - it wouyld have to be initially a TSC schema and then when proven we endorse it
10/10/2006 15:52:53 ‹Gregg› sorry, should the xFx hubs touch the headers?
10/10/2006 15:53:10 ‹James› hubs should just pass messages, nothing more
10/10/2006 15:53:29 ‹Gregg› right--that's what I thought
10/10/2006 15:53:38 ‹James› routers should pass messages but increase teh hop count
10/10/2006 15:54:18 ‹Kevin H› xFX was designed to help enforce xAP compliance in early days - it had a 'be less tetchy' setting but some things are just blocked still
10/10/2006 15:54:22 ‹Gregg› oh yes--I need to get a router going; is Patrick's site the source for *nix xAP routers?
10/10/2006 15:54:29 ‹James› yep
10/10/2006 15:54:51 ‹Kevin H› The source is there too Gregg (IIRC)
10/10/2006 15:55:12 ‹James› although i think the best router is to convert xAP to XML and pass it in xmpp
10/10/2006 15:55:16 ‹Gregg› thanks as I almost always build or need to mod the makefile
10/10/2006 15:56:29 ‹Kevin H› J - can u send an email to SB asking if there is any chance we could get the source to Viewer ? - Maybe try calling him as well - he never answers my calls or 'withheld' ones either
10/10/2006 15:56:42 ‹Gregg› hmmm..., I was actually thinking of running the xAP router on my primary router/firewall; so, whatever the solution would need to be very lightweight
10/10/2006 15:56:46 ‹Kevin H› I tend to think he's away for some reason...
10/10/2006 15:56:59 ‹James› I already have, quite a few times
10/10/2006 15:57:15 ‹Kevin H› The XML thing has come up a few times...
10/10/2006 15:57:46 ‹Kevin H› .so it's not just me (U)
10/10/2006 15:57:51 ‹James› xAP in xml should be pretty simple as it's very nearly xml anyway
10/10/2006 15:58:28 ‹Kevin H› Hey J - I'm here where's my xAP bot link :-P
10/10/2006 15:58:43 ‹James› you just have to ask
10/10/2006 15:58:51 ‹Gregg› I thought it was only for the first visitor
10/10/2006 15:58:58 ‹Gregg› ;)
10/10/2006 15:58:59 ‹Kevin H› :'(
10/10/2006 15:59:23 ‹James› not bot for K with out the magic word
10/10/2006 15:59:31 ‹Kevin H› Also - thinking of getting the ZigBee dev kit for my Rabbit stuff....
10/10/2006 15:59:46 ‹Kevin H› (r)pse(r)
10/10/2006 15:59:50 ‹James› www.mi4.biz/4.zip
10/10/2006 15:59:53 ‹Kevin H› pretty please
10/10/2006 16:00:20 ‹James› i saw all teh zigbee stuff on the rabbit homepage
10/10/2006 16:00:33 ‹Kevin H› No need for tiny url with that
10/10/2006 16:01:00 ‹James› i like to keep things short
10/10/2006 16:01:11 ‹Kevin H› At 1 off RRP teh zogbee modules are around £17
10/10/2006 16:01:32 ‹Kevin H› mucho (D)(D)(D)as you can tell !
10/10/2006 16:01:34 ‹James› there is also the latest Switchboarrd exe in there that does some database compaction with helps SB alot
10/10/2006 16:01:47 * lehane joins My room
10/10/2006 16:02:07 ‹Gregg› Hi Lehane
10/10/2006 16:02:14 ‹Kevin H› Hi there L
10/10/2006 16:02:17 ‹James› it wouldn't be a xAP chat without (D)
10/10/2006 16:02:17 ‹lehane› Hi all - back from hols...
10/10/2006 16:02:21 ‹James› hi :
10/10/2006 16:02:29 ‹James› L
10/10/2006 16:02:44 ‹Kevin H› Me's back from a public hanging too.... (last three weeks)
10/10/2006 16:03:03 ‹Kevin H› well it felt like it - even as an onlooker
10/10/2006 16:03:21 ‹James› at least you wern't in the middle of it
10/10/2006 16:03:39 ‹Kevin H› Big project - badly specced - critical timeline - failed
10/10/2006 16:04:00 ‹lehane› sounds all too familiar....
10/10/2006 16:04:06 ‹Kevin H› Couldn't even get enough smoke for 'smoke and mirrors'
10/10/2006 16:04:34 ‹lehane› wot - not even Powerpoint smoke and mirrors?
10/10/2006 16:05:03 ‹James› not even wordart smoke and mirrors ;-)
10/10/2006 16:05:15 ‹lehane› nuff said!
10/10/2006 16:05:17 ‹Kevin H› I know I owe you TSC comments L - I have a hand commented doc - will get it emailed this week in a better format
10/10/2006 16:05:48 ‹lehane› OK - I'm pretty busy the rest of the week away from home anyway
10/10/2006 16:06:07 ‹Kevin H› Is the original doc still what I should be working from ?
10/10/2006 16:06:42 ‹lehane› I have one which I updated from some of the feedback but not issued it yet
10/10/2006 16:08:47 ‹Kevin H› I know I felt at the time that it didn't quite have the disclosure that BSC had - not being able to discover the capabilities as netaly - however I'm not surethis is achievable either
10/10/2006 16:09:22 ‹lehane› G - I'll mail the Caddx perl to you Friday-I'll take the debug out
10/10/2006 16:09:34 ‹Kevin H› netaly=neatly
10/10/2006 16:11:13 ‹Kevin H› It was to do with defining ranges and associated info - the extra parameters - so that new things didn't keep appearing in schema...
10/10/2006 16:11:35 ‹Kevin H› and this issue of contextually related values
10/10/2006 16:12:36 ‹lehane› I thought we had a resolution to the context issue?
10/10/2006 16:12:43 * James quit (timeout)
10/10/2006 16:13:11 ‹Kevin H› I may have missed some discussion in the xAP Talk forums
10/10/2006 16:13:40 ‹Kevin H› Put some new batteries in J !
10/10/2006 16:13:42 ‹lehane› I'd need to go back and reread them too....
10/10/2006 16:14:23 ‹Gregg› I was under the impression that IDs were taken out of the bodies and at most included in section names and preferably as endpoints
10/10/2006 16:14:46 ‹lehane› yes
10/10/2006 16:15:39 ‹Kevin H› Did you allow multiple body sections in one mesage ?
10/10/2006 16:15:49 ‹Kevin H› Or did this preclude it
10/10/2006 16:16:19 ‹Gregg› I think that there was also discussion about having some reference to a standard and/or having a named set of "types" (e.g. temperature, humidity, etc.)
10/10/2006 16:17:16 ‹Kevin H› These will all help definition but someone will want a new 'viscosity' sensor type of course
10/10/2006 16:17:34 ‹lehane› Single body section per message.
10/10/2006 16:17:46 * James joins My room
10/10/2006 16:18:39 ‹Gregg› L--right, but having an initial "defined" set will help inter-operating devices/apps automatically know how to interpret the sensor values
10/10/2006 16:18:41 ‹James› grr, my adsl is still acting up :-(
10/10/2006 16:18:45 ‹lehane› If we cover 99% with standard types then thats the most we can hope for. Anything else would have limited applicability
10/10/2006 16:18:59 ‹Kevin H› The advantage of mutiple bodies is that for teh same information you can associate vlaues within a block which 'sort of' provides a way around contextual values
10/10/2006 16:19:57 ‹Kevin H› At a previous xAP discussion we talked about a way of identifying contextual value parameters distinctly from normal params but IMHO it was an awful solution
10/10/2006 16:20:19 ‹Kevin H› Context1=Direction
10/10/2006 16:20:27 ‹Kevin H› Context2=Colour
10/10/2006 16:20:33 ‹Kevin H› Colour=Red
10/10/2006 16:20:46 ‹Kevin H› Direction=North
10/10/2006 16:20:58 ‹Gregg› that is painful
10/10/2006 16:21:09 ‹Kevin H› tell me about it
10/10/2006 16:21:14 ‹lehane› agreed
10/10/2006 16:21:29 ‹Kevin H› I wanted... something simple like
10/10/2006 16:21:38 ‹Kevin H› _Colour=Red
10/10/2006 16:22:31 ‹Kevin H› _Direction=South etc
10/10/2006 16:22:36 ‹Kevin H› back in 2
10/10/2006 16:22:50 ‹Gregg› K-is the underscore significant?
10/10/2006 16:23:09 ‹James› just a way to highlight a context
10/10/2006 16:23:29 ‹Gregg› Is there a current schema that uses them?
10/10/2006 16:23:36 ‹James› none
10/10/2006 16:23:40 ‹lehane› haven't see one
10/10/2006 16:24:03 ‹James› I alwasy like to return to my xAP test for good Schema:
10/10/2006 16:24:48 ‹James› That any item in a xAP message can be defined by Source,class,section,item (SCSI) if it has to refer to anything else then it's a bad schema
10/10/2006 16:25:20 ‹James› i just liek to keep things simple!
10/10/2006 16:25:33 ‹lehane› therefore context from section?
10/10/2006 16:25:44 ‹James› yes
10/10/2006 16:26:32 ‹lehane› That's workable
10/10/2006 16:27:07 ‹James› I just think it's a good rule of thumb
10/10/2006 16:28:57 ‹lehane› I see someone else requested floorplan security
10/10/2006 16:29:46 ‹Kevin H› I agree but sometimes we have so many things that augment a value that our schema headers - particularly the body section names will become really messy
10/10/2006 16:29:55 ‹James› well, i've started on the Pin per tab option but the basic authentication is to do as that needs to be done in the intranet ocx
10/10/2006 16:32:18 ‹lehane› I guess the general case will still be for relatively simple section headers
10/10/2006 16:32:53 ‹Kevin H› Which is why I was interested that you only had one block permitted in each TSC message
10/10/2006 16:33:47 ‹Kevin H› If we can do the TSC schema without contextual values and with sensible block names I think that will be a good first step
10/10/2006 16:35:08 ‹lehane› yes - and some real world usage
10/10/2006 16:35:48 ‹James› ( the framework for TSC in FLoorplan is already there )
10/10/2006 16:36:06 ‹Kevin H› .. ahh teh real world which messes up all best laid plans...
10/10/2006 16:37:57 ‹lehane› J - excellent.. although I still haven't figured a way to have phantom raw devices to update a global variable..(room setpoint)
10/10/2006 16:39:09 ‹James› :$ that could be me not adding something
10/10/2006 16:41:50 ‹lehane› I'm using the setdisplayname - very useful, for example if the wx report is > 2hrs old it displays "Stale" rather than the old value, the worst bit was UTC/BST
10/10/2006 16:42:15 ‹lehane› calculation - wsh dig into the registry
10/10/2006 16:42:26 ‹James› yes BST is a pain
10/10/2006 16:42:50 ‹lehane› I'll add the script to the wiki
10/10/2006 16:43:08 ‹James› good idea
10/10/2006 16:43:34 ‹James› i'll get some examples figured out to set data from teh floorplan
10/10/2006 16:44:22 ‹lehane› Anyway to order the tabs in non-alpha sequence? "Boiler Room" comes up ahead of Groundfloor :-(
10/10/2006 16:45:20 ‹James› you can't but in the settings file you can enter the name for the default tab
10/10/2006 16:46:57 ‹Kevin H› On a totally different subject J - I sensed you were tempted by a Vario II  ?
10/10/2006 16:47:06 ‹James› i have one
10/10/2006 16:47:12 ‹James› :-)
10/10/2006 16:47:16 ‹Kevin H› I knew it !
10/10/2006 16:47:25 ‹Kevin H› Is it FP compatible ?
10/10/2006 16:47:43 ‹Kevin H› I have one on order...
10/10/2006 16:47:46 ‹James› Pocke ie is crap, but xFP does have a pds interface :-)
10/10/2006 16:48:00 ‹Kevin H› and does Ajax work ok ?
10/10/2006 16:48:07 ‹James› pocket opera could probably do the full ajax
10/10/2006 16:48:20 ‹Kevin H› and that is available ?
10/10/2006 16:48:23 ‹James› pIE doesn't do ajax
10/10/2006 16:49:22 ‹lehane› <echo>Pocket IE is _really_ crap </echo>
10/10/2006 16:49:50 ‹James› yep, jsut tried it. no ajax ata ll
10/10/2006 16:50:49 ‹lehane› neither do the Symbol or Telxon derivatives
10/10/2006 16:50:59 ‹Kevin H› Thats really surprising cos the calls have been defined for a couple of years at least now..
10/10/2006 16:51:07 ‹Kevin H› shame
10/10/2006 16:51:41 ‹James› I am not impressed at all with windows mobile 5. But hardware wise it's a great device
10/10/2006 16:51:56 ‹James› I wish i could get Palm os on it!
10/10/2006 16:52:03 ‹Kevin H› Having FP on Vario II would be great..
10/10/2006 16:52:31 ‹James› the simple pda FP web pages work fine though
10/10/2006 16:52:52 ‹Kevin H› but it uses a lot of bandwidth - and is refresh based still
10/10/2006 16:52:53 ‹James› I'm just going to have to learn flash one day :-(
10/10/2006 16:53:26 ‹lehane› PDA version not so intuitive with lots of devices
10/10/2006 16:53:51 ‹James› no it's not but at least it works :-(
10/10/2006 16:53:54 ‹Kevin H› I have my C-Bus refresh based on 1 minute Ajax updates (timeouts) currently and it works great - and instant push updates
10/10/2006 16:54:12 ‹James› nice
10/10/2006 16:54:31 ‹James› how many ajax connections can it do now?
10/10/2006 16:54:33 ‹Kevin H› I'm thinking FP can easily do the same...
10/10/2006 16:54:39 ‹Kevin H› one !
10/10/2006 16:54:45 ‹James› cheat!
10/10/2006 16:54:55 ‹Kevin H› I can add a sesssion tag
10/10/2006 16:55:08 ‹Kevin H› I think
10/10/2006 16:55:31 ‹lehane› Have a look at http://blogs.msdn.com/iemobile/archive/2005/11/15/493200.aspx
10/10/2006 16:55:32 ‹Kevin H› I only ever erally need one though...
10/10/2006 16:57:46 ‹Kevin H› hmmm .. promising in a PT way...
10/10/2006 16:58:07 ‹James› new ActiveXObject("Microsoft.XMLHTTP";); or new ActiveXObject("Msxml2.XMLHTTP";); why oh why can't they just stick to one syntax!
10/10/2006 16:59:20 ‹lehane› you just know the answer!
10/10/2006 16:59:30 ‹James› (H)(tux1)
10/10/2006 17:01:36 ‹Kevin H› L - do you still hold and use a G license ?
10/10/2006 17:02:39 ‹lehane› yep, but housebuilding/moving and HA has kept me off the air for 4 years - hope to back on 10GHz this year
10/10/2006 17:02:47 ‹Kevin H› Is anything happening on packet that is interesting or did it die ? I haven't used my license for 4 years now...
10/10/2006 17:02:54 ‹Kevin H› Ahh - same situation
10/10/2006 17:03:22 ‹James› back in5
10/10/2006 17:03:35 ‹lehane› There are some gateways but in the UK they never got a highspeed backbone running
10/10/2006 17:04:18 ‹lehane› I have to cut and run - early start again tomorrow
10/10/2006 17:04:40 ‹Kevin H› It was one of those window of interest things - but I did have realtime sat tracking of a car working for a while..
10/10/2006 17:05:20 ‹lehane› yes APRS is still is use and packet is used for the Sats and ISS
10/10/2006 17:05:54 ‹lehane› there are some esoteric modes for EME, etc
10/10/2006 17:06:40 ‹lehane› Ok - gotta go
10/10/2006 17:06:43 * lehane quit
10/10/2006 17:09:23 ‹James› back
10/10/2006 17:10:03 ‹Kevin H› I thought you were absorbed in C5 !
10/10/2006 17:10:10 ‹James› you can do your real time sat tracking with your new vario now
10/10/2006 17:10:17 ‹James› c5?
10/10/2006 17:10:43 ‹Kevin H› The I'm in love with a plastic doll thing ....
10/10/2006 17:10:48 ‹James› jikes!
10/10/2006 17:10:53 ‹Kevin H› really bizarre
10/10/2006 17:11:26 ‹James› I found a great program on uknova about the gunpowder plot
10/10/2006 17:11:31 ‹Kevin H› James› you can do your real time sat tracking with your new vario now - I can ?
10/10/2006 17:11:37 ‹James› the end result was a test to see if it would work
10/10/2006 17:11:50 ‹Kevin H› ..and it didn't ?
10/10/2006 17:11:55 ‹James› real size house of lords and 1 TON of gunpowder
10/10/2006 17:12:06 ‹James› Woohoo one hell of a blast!
10/10/2006 17:12:33 ‹Kevin H› ahh - bit like the Pyramids then
10/10/2006 17:13:00 ‹James› they blew up the pyramids?
10/10/2006 17:13:58 ‹James› gps+vario > i'm sure there will be a way with it's cheap data. bluetooh gps>vario is easy
10/10/2006 17:14:56 ‹Kevin H› not what I meant - they achieved things we probably could never achieve nowadays - we'd have put the explosives in a shoe or something
10/10/2006 17:15:24 ‹Kevin H› and been under the wrong building
10/10/2006 17:15:41 ‹James› ah i see. tbh the power of 17th century gunpowder suprised the experts
10/10/2006 17:16:21 ‹James› a 9 foot concrete wall was smashed to bits