xAP Talk Transcript 2006 07 18
18/07/2006 20:55:28 ‹kevint› ;)
18/07/2006 20:55:37 ‹drodegeb› Hey
18/07/2006 20:55:46 ‹James› hi
18/07/2006 20:55:50 ‹kevint› hi
18/07/2006 20:56:45 ‹drodegeb› Thanks for doing the transcripts, it is quite difficult to hit that at 4PM EST.
18/07/2006 20:56:47 ‹kevint› hopefullly this week we wont keep getting disconnected..
18/07/2006 20:56:50 ‹James› so, any one got any xAP questions then ;-)
18/07/2006 20:57:07 ‹James› it is updated software, fingers crossed
18/07/2006 20:57:18 ‹Paul G› Yes
18/07/2006 20:57:32 ‹kevint› ah so its not an IE bash then
18/07/2006 20:57:40 ‹James› so, any one got any simple xAP questions then i should of said
18/07/2006 20:57:45 ‹Paul G› xap plugin for HS and MainLobby
18/07/2006 20:57:54 ‹kevint› Are your posts ggetting through ok now paul?
18/07/2006 20:58:08 ‹Paul G› xap weather is now working
18/07/2006 20:58:12 ‹James› never used ML but HS2 i'm alright on
18/07/2006 20:58:13 ‹Paul G› yes thanks
18/07/2006 20:58:31 ‹James› that yahoo spam filter is getting me too
18/07/2006 20:58:35 ‹Paul G› current date stamp is showing as an old entry
18/07/2006 20:58:55 ‹Paul G› "dateofreport"
18/07/2006 20:58:59 ‹James› in hs2 i presume?
18/07/2006 20:59:03 ‹Paul G› 20060702
18/07/2006 20:59:07 ‹Paul G› yes
18/07/2006 20:59:17 ‹Paul G› but desktop app shows correct date
18/07/2006 20:59:23 ‹James› if the data changes it should update the date stamp
18/07/2006 20:59:32 ‹Paul G› oh and time as well I think
18/07/2006 20:59:49 ‹James› sry, which desktop app?
18/07/2006 21:00:09 ‹Paul G› xap weather
18/07/2006 21:00:25 ‹Paul G› is the text shown the METAR?
18/07/2006 21:00:33 ‹James› k, and thing like the temp are being transfered correctly?
18/07/2006 21:00:42 ‹Paul G› I'm familiar with METAR's as I fly - or used to!
18/07/2006 21:00:47 ‹James› as the tool tip on hte image, yes
18/07/2006 21:01:08 ‹James› it took me a little while to get used to metar
18/07/2006 21:01:57 ‹Paul G› are all the tool tips forecast - or is the main one the METAR?
18/07/2006 21:02:07 ‹James› so in HS2 do the Temps have the correct update time next to them?
18/07/2006 21:02:28 ‹James› metar is jus thte current weather. the forecast is bbc only
18/07/2006 21:02:48 ‹Paul G› all the forecasts seem ok
18/07/2006 21:02:59 ‹Paul G› it's the METAR that's wrong I guess
18/07/2006 21:03:53 ‹Paul G› The main pic and the text are the same as the tooltip
18/07/2006 21:04:18 ‹James› possibly then, hs2 will just display what is in weathers's weather.report messages.
18/07/2006 21:04:36 ‹James› let me jsut try weather here. i use bbc fo both forecast and current here
18/07/2006 21:04:52 ‹Paul G› EGVA for METAR
18/07/2006 21:04:56 * kevint disconnected (timeout)
18/07/2006 21:04:58 ‹Paul G› 3467
18/07/2006 21:05:47 ‹James› is ythat world=3467 or id=3467?
18/07/2006 21:06:05 ‹Paul G› id I think
18/07/2006 21:06:47 ‹James› so data is from 20060718 14.45
18/07/2006 21:07:34 ‹Paul G› yes
18/07/2006 21:07:59 ‹Paul G› but in HS - the WEATHER CURRENT shows
18/07/2006 21:08:11 ‹Paul G› 17:50 20060702
18/07/2006 21:09:40 ‹James› what is weather current? There should bea Time of report and a Date of report as seperate devices but not a single device?
18/07/2006 21:10:33 ‹Paul G› yes that's two devices
18/07/2006 21:10:48 ‹Paul G› weather current is the location in HS
18/07/2006 21:11:47 ‹James› did any thing change on the 2nd?
18/07/2006 21:12:08 ‹Paul G› that was prob the date/time I installed xap weather
18/07/2006 21:12:40 ‹James› the weather stations used havn't changed have they?
18/07/2006 21:12:51 ‹Paul G› no
18/07/2006 21:13:23 ‹James› could you open up c:\program files\homeseer2\xap\settings.txt
18/07/2006 21:14:08 ‹James› and look for a control=X,weather.report,weather.report,data ... line
18/07/2006 21:14:23 ‹James› and the look for a control=X,weather.report,weather.report,utl ... line
18/07/2006 21:14:45 ‹James› arg,, that should of been datE and utC at the end of those
18/07/2006 21:15:20 ‹James› those line specify what data to extract for that device
18/07/2006 21:16:40 ‹Paul G› looks like I may have duplicates - is that right?
18/07/2006 21:17:21 ‹Paul G› Control=12,weather.report:weather.report:utc,00,none,mi4.weather.egva,mi4.weather.egva
18/07/2006 21:17:39 ‹Paul G› Control=43,weather.report:weather.report:utc,00,none,mi4.weather.egvn,mi4.weather.egvn
18/07/2006 21:18:06 * kevint disconnected (timeout)
18/07/2006 21:18:10 ‹James› exact duplicates are wrong but they coul db really similar
18/07/2006 21:18:22 ‹James› EGVA and EGVN there
18/07/2006 21:19:14 * drodegeb disconnected (timeout)
18/07/2006 21:20:10 ‹Paul G› oh yes - didn't notice that
18/07/2006 21:20:10 ‹James› ok, so look in the file for Virtual=xx,12 and Virtual=xx,43 the xx is the house code. which one is the device in hs that isn't updating?
18/07/2006 21:22:10 ‹Paul G› ah it's the EGVN (unused one) that's showing in HS (but shouldn't be there I guess)
18/07/2006 21:22:38 ‹Paul G› how do I delete that section?
18/07/2006 21:22:44 ‹James› two ways to fix. remove all the weather devices and start again
18/07/2006 21:22:55 ‹James› or close HS and edit the settings file
18/07/2006 21:23:11 ‹James› delete the device in HS
18/07/2006 21:23:31 * Gregg is connected
18/07/2006 21:23:32 ‹James› the go to config and on the redetect tab find xAP weather
18/07/2006 21:23:32 ‹Paul G› will that affect my device numbering at all?
18/07/2006 21:23:41 ‹James› quite probably
18/07/2006 21:23:47 ‹Paul G› as I already have coded these in ML
18/07/2006 21:23:57 ‹James› k, close hs2 and edit the file then
18/07/2006 21:24:05 ‹Paul G› ok
18/07/2006 21:24:19 ‹James› jsut alet the control= lines to change the N to an A
18/07/2006 21:24:27 ‹James› ( in lower case)
18/07/2006 21:24:34 ‹James› hi greg
18/07/2006 21:24:38 ‹James› g
18/07/2006 21:24:41 ‹Gregg› Hi James
18/07/2006 21:25:05 ‹James› I work with a guy called Greg, so alwasy forget your second G
18/07/2006 21:25:19 ‹Gregg› np--it happens a lot
18/07/2006 21:25:57 ‹Paul G› will it matter it i delete codes and leave a gap?
18/07/2006 21:26:16 ‹James› i noticed the xAP zm wiki page, did you want me to add some of the launchersr and screensave screenshots to it?
18/07/2006 21:26:31 ‹James› no, it'll re-use them for the next device
18/07/2006 21:26:36 ‹Gregg› by all means--that would definitely help
18/07/2006 21:26:45 ‹Paul G› oh - got to go - thanks James
18/07/2006 21:26:50 ‹Paul G› will try this later
18/07/2006 21:26:54 ‹Paul G› bye all
18/07/2006 21:26:56 ‹James› np
18/07/2006 21:26:58 ‹James› bye
18/07/2006 21:27:00 ‹Paul G› sorry to run
18/07/2006 21:27:02 ‹Gregg› I have a lot more to add anyway--particularly on "how to use it"
18/07/2006 21:27:17 ‹James› ah the joys of howtos
18/07/2006 21:27:31 * Paul G disconnected (timeout)
18/07/2006 21:27:33 ‹Gregg› I'm miserably overdue
18/07/2006 21:28:28 ‹James› if it makes you feel any better my todo list is huge too
18/07/2006 21:29:06 ‹Gregg› speaking of wikis, I noticed that the official xAP wiki has a misterhouse section that is blank; should I fill this out?
18/07/2006 21:29:25 ‹James› if you are doing how tos and any of it is GUI based then this may help - http://www.debugmode.com/wink/ - as it exports to flash and is pretty quick and easy
18/07/2006 21:29:39 ‹James› oo, could you
18/07/2006 21:29:55 ‹Gregg› thanks for that link
18/07/2006 21:30:01 * kevint disconnected (timeout)
18/07/2006 21:30:10 ‹James› i'll email you a logon to the wiki
18/07/2006 21:30:19 ‹Gregg› I'm using the excuse of not having a wiki account to keep me from doing any work
18/07/2006 21:31:46 ‹James› you have mail
18/07/2006 21:32:24 ‹Gregg› got it. oohhh... the wiki doesn't like safari;
18/07/2006 21:32:58 ‹James› i thought mediawiki was pretty compatible
18/07/2006 21:33:20 ‹James› Anyone else want a wiki account while i'm setting them up?
18/07/2006 21:34:06 ‹Gregg› the login apparently uses DHTML that safari doesn't like
18/07/2006 21:34:18 ‹Gregg› it's ok--just switched to a different computer
18/07/2006 21:35:34 * kevint disconnected (timeout)
18/07/2006 21:36:16 ‹James› Does any one here use Jabber IM at all?
18/07/2006 21:36:26 ‹Gregg› yep
18/07/2006 21:36:34 ‹drodegeb› Not currently, but not opposed to it.
18/07/2006 21:37:11 ‹James› i have my little xAP jabber bot nearing completion and it may need a little testing ;-)
18/07/2006 21:38:05 ‹drodegeb› Sounds interesting, What kind of features are built in?
18/07/2006 21:38:13 ‹Gregg› I'd be very interested
18/07/2006 21:39:04 ‹James› it will relay display messages to remote jabber users, so when your away you know the door bell is pushed etc. and it link with floorplan and switchboard so you can ask it things like " what is Fred's phone number"
18/07/2006 21:39:18 ‹James› "is the kitchen light on" type things
18/07/2006 21:39:40 ‹drodegeb› Sounds good, I would be willing to test it for you.
18/07/2006 21:40:49 ‹James› thanks, one little issue is it can only link un encrypted to the jabber server, it can't use tsl or ssl so no googletalk
18/07/2006 21:41:16 ‹James› unles anyone knows of a good jabber COM library that would do those things?
18/07/2006 21:41:26 ‹drodegeb› I'm not all that familiar with that yet anyway, but I plan to play with jabber tonight.
18/07/2006 21:41:48 ‹James› als the application needs to be on the same netowrk as switchboard and florplan so it can query data]
18/07/2006 21:42:20 ‹drodegeb› So this would require 2 Jabber accounts then?
18/07/2006 21:42:33 ‹drodegeb› 1 for the server side, Another to send to?
18/07/2006 21:42:36 ‹James› yes, the bot has one and you have one
18/07/2006 21:42:49 ‹James› you add the bot to your contact list
18/07/2006 21:43:01 ‹drodegeb› Sounds good.
18/07/2006 21:43:22 ‹Gregg› So, can "you" have an encrypted session while the bot is unecrypted?
18/07/2006 21:43:31 ‹James› and because jabber is jabber neither account has to be on the same server
18/07/2006 21:43:35 ‹James› yep
18/07/2006 21:43:53 ‹drodegeb› What sources will it work with in the unencrypted mode?
18/07/2006 21:44:00 ‹Gregg› that seems fine w/ me as my server is on the same subnet as xAP
18/07/2006 21:44:09 ‹James› the un encrypted bit is the bot connecting to the bot's server thats all
18/07/2006 21:44:45 ‹James› i think jabber.org.uk and most similar services allow unencrypted logons
18/07/2006 21:44:56 ‹James› or you coul dbe brave and run your oun server
18/07/2006 21:45:09 ‹Gregg› and, it's trivial to do
18/07/2006 21:45:41 ‹James› gregg have you ever used a te110p isdn pri card with * ?
18/07/2006 21:45:56 ‹James› (changing the subject)
18/07/2006 21:45:59 ‹Gregg› no--only a tdm400p
18/07/2006 21:46:22 ‹drodegeb› Does a client have to be installed for the bot to work, or is the bot a client on it's own?
18/07/2006 21:46:25 ‹James› just installed on in our * box and all the voice prompts stopped working
18/07/2006 21:46:32 ‹James› the bot is the client
18/07/2006 21:46:37 ‹Gregg› more change of subject, I'm thinking of being able to map an IVR menu choice to some xAP message to allow control via IVR menus
18/07/2006 21:47:02 ‹James› if you coul dcall php files you can send xAP from them
18/07/2006 21:47:59 ‹Gregg› well, I was contemplating something semi-generic (e.g., BSC status)
18/07/2006 21:48:09 ‹drodegeb› Last question I promise... So the bot would have to have an account on an unencrypted server, but it could send messages to my gmail im correct??
18/07/2006 21:48:12 ‹Gregg› and, allow floorplan to perform any mapping
18/07/2006 21:48:15 ‹James› even better
18/07/2006 21:50:39 * kevint disconnected (timeout)
18/07/2006 21:52:07 ‹James› drodegeb> correct
18/07/2006 21:52:37 ‹James› jabber servers link up, like email does so sender and receiver can be on different servers/domains
18/07/2006 21:54:15 ‹James› Kevin, you know your intranet apps that display web pages...
18/07/2006 21:55:04 ‹James› feature request really, to add a tab bar to allow each app to have more than one web page
18/07/2006 21:55:23 ‹James› and to allow different IPs to see different page selections.
18/07/2006 21:56:04 ‹James› I'm going to upload the source of the screensaver server as it's a exmple of how to do some of this
18/07/2006 21:57:42 ‹James› - i think i've shocked Kevin into silence -
18/07/2006 21:59:13 ‹Gregg› well, until he responds, here's a continuation of the axc to floorplan mapping question...
18/07/2006 21:59:20 ‹James› k
18/07/2006 21:59:46 ‹Gregg› If the outcome of whatever command or set of commands is TTS that is streamed back into the * channel, I'm wondering if I can pass the call tag
18/07/2006 21:59:47 ‹kevint› Sorry , in and out as Im packing
18/07/2006 22:00:07 ‹Gregg› via BSC and then allow the floorplan map include it as a parm in the TTS message
18/07/2006 22:00:44 ‹kevint› u mean the generic intranet app?
18/07/2006 22:00:50 ‹James› KT, yes
18/07/2006 22:01:17 ‹James› G, it may be had to get that tag to follow the messages around. Unles bits are modded a bit
18/07/2006 22:01:24 ‹kevint› sure thats do able given you can wait till I have had my holiday ;)
18/07/2006 22:01:29 ‹James› np
18/07/2006 22:01:41 ‹James› wouldn't you be using *'s tts though?
18/07/2006 22:02:03 ‹Gregg› ok--then, if I assume that there's only the one channel per line, then perhaps the mapper could target the TTS message back to the line
18/07/2006 22:02:22 ‹Gregg› yes, I would be using *'s TTS to convert the contents of the xAP TTS message into audio
18/07/2006 22:02:35 * kevint disconnected (timeout)
18/07/2006 22:02:45 ‹James› so it's not xsap speech making the sounds then
18/07/2006 22:02:54 ‹Gregg› correct
18/07/2006 22:03:07 ‹Gregg› it's an axc++ thingy
18/07/2006 22:03:14 ‹James› well if the messages is being sent by xFP then it can be to whoever you want
18/07/2006 22:03:26 ‹drodegeb› Well gotta go, let me know about the xap jabber module. email@example.com
18/07/2006 22:03:28 ‹drodegeb› Thanks
18/07/2006 22:03:45 ‹kevint› I dont suppose anyone has heard from Stuart this week?
18/07/2006 22:03:47 ‹James› thanks for the future testing ;-)
18/07/2006 22:03:56 ‹James› bfn
18/07/2006 22:04:03 ‹Gregg› Ok--next, is the xFP mapping sufficient to know whether the commands that is sent results in a successful status change?
18/07/2006 22:04:11 ‹James› no, KH was going to rin ghim
18/07/2006 22:04:53 * drodegeb disconnected (timeout)
18/07/2006 22:04:59 ‹James› um, that message would be from the device xFP is controlling not xFP itself
18/07/2006 22:05:25 ‹James› xFP sends the command and the end device, the light, responds with either a .info or .event
18/07/2006 22:05:35 ‹Gregg› I'm wondering if that could be used to influence the contents of the xAP TTS message
18/07/2006 22:05:44 ‹James› xFP then uses that .info or .event to update itself
18/07/2006 22:06:05 ‹Gregg› so, it could know if the .info or .event state matches what is requested or not?
18/07/2006 22:07:04 ‹James› not really, a .info would indicate no change and a .event a change so it's not quite the same
18/07/2006 22:08:10 ‹James› may be best to use a simple single line command message to floorplan and for that to be parsed to a script and fot he script to do the processing,, not sure how it woul dall work though
18/07/2006 22:08:59 ‹Gregg› ok
18/07/2006 22:09:31 ‹James› it would be a bit liek how the HS2 schema works - http://www.mi4.biz/modules.php?name=Content&;pa=showpage&pid=10
18/07/2006 22:09:43 ‹James› ( the .command)
18/07/2006 22:11:03 ‹Gregg› ...not sure what I should be looking at from your url--Homeseer Guides?
18/07/2006 22:11:28 ‹James› link shoul dbe the hs2 plugin schema
18/07/2006 22:11:56 ‹James› hmm, there's a ; that shouldn't be in there
18/07/2006 22:12:44 ‹Gregg› got it
18/07/2006 22:13:17 ‹Gregg› ahh.. yes, that's pretty much like what I use for misterhouse as well
18/07/2006 22:13:43 ‹James› it's very simple, but with the BSC stuff as well it seems to cover all bases
18/07/2006 22:13:55 ‹James› and its easy to expand
18/07/2006 22:14:10 ‹James› xFP will have a simiar schema soon
18/07/2006 22:14:22 ‹James› to trigger events, scripts...
18/07/2006 22:14:49 ‹James› which is especially useful with the new scenes stuff
18/07/2006 22:14:51 ‹Gregg› oh--well maybe that would be better to output from axc than just a BSC message
18/07/2006 22:15:25 ‹Gregg› how soon til you might have a schema defined for xFP to do as you just described?
18/07/2006 22:15:34 ‹James› quite probably, i do inted to make it a floorplan.command schema but it would also respond ( if targetted) to a homeseer.command
18/07/2006 22:17:55 * kevint disconnected (timeout)
18/07/2006 22:19:14 ‹James› so what can xAP in Misterhouse do? I've never really got that far with MH,, did get it running once
18/07/2006 22:20:26 ‹Gregg› let's see; if maps all of it's X10 objects, all "abstracted" light, motion, presence and occupancy objects into BSC for status as well as permits being controlled
18/07/2006 22:20:47 ‹James› that's a good start
18/07/2006 22:20:49 ‹Gregg› it receives and parses xAP weather updates and merges into other weather feeds
18/07/2006 22:20:56 ‹James› cool
18/07/2006 22:21:01 ‹James› ( or hot)
18/07/2006 22:21:12 ‹Gregg› it can output xAP TTS in a "room" controlled PA type mode
18/07/2006 22:21:39 ‹Gregg› so, within mh you can specify which rooms or which apps map to which rooms which in turn can control xAP TTS
18/07/2006 22:21:56 ‹Gregg› (also, xPL and hard-wired in a single context)
18/07/2006 22:22:06 ‹James› ok, so quite alot then
18/07/2006 22:22:22 ‹Gregg› It also responds to my xAP enabled voice recognition engine via the command like schema
18/07/2006 22:22:40 ‹James› oo VR?? how?
18/07/2006 22:22:50 ‹Gregg› It will also fully sync it's entire state w/ another mh instance using xAP
18/07/2006 22:22:59 ‹James› wow
18/07/2006 22:23:00 ‹Gregg› sphinx4--it's java based
18/07/2006 22:23:17 ‹James› so win32 compatible?
18/07/2006 22:23:41 ‹Gregg› And, very soon it will fully speak the VMI schema aka zmxap so that zones can be mapped into motion objects and assist occupancy tracking
18/07/2006 22:24:06 ‹Gregg› yep--packages for win32, linux and solaris
18/07/2006 22:24:16 ‹James› you could also link *'s bluetooth tracking in there
18/07/2006 22:24:31 ‹James› or probably MH does that already
18/07/2006 22:24:57 ‹James› that'll be quite a xAP wiki page once you've typed it all up ;-)
18/07/2006 22:24:59 ‹Gregg› oh yeah--I almost forgot, mh does have a special bluetooth client that speaks xAP and receives it's input
18/07/2006 22:25:22 ‹Gregg› and also contains a festival TTS xAP client
18/07/2006 22:25:28 ‹Gregg› more like a wrapper
18/07/2006 22:25:40 ‹James› it's a pity festival sounds awful
18/07/2006 22:25:45 ‹Gregg› I think that's the list
18/07/2006 22:25:56 ‹James› it's a good list
18/07/2006 22:26:05 ‹Gregg› yep--although it's pretty useful for non-english languages
18/07/2006 22:26:34 ‹Gregg› where other comercial engines sometimes fall short
18/07/2006 22:27:03 ‹James› yep, as it sythesises and doesn't use samples
18/07/2006 22:27:03 ‹Gregg› Actually, I'm also giving some thought to working on a OWFS conduit unless someone already has one
18/07/2006 22:27:35 ‹James› thre is code for a Tom10 board that i know of
18/07/2006 22:27:49 ‹James› i think patrick may have done a little 1 wire too
18/07/2006 22:28:17 ‹James› For those reading the transcript - http://owfs.sourceforge.net/
18/07/2006 22:28:28 ‹Gregg› unfortunately, I fried mine (don't ask). hmmm.., I'll have to look at Patrick's site. I specifically want to target OWFS since it has so much support for so many 1-wire devices
18/07/2006 22:28:45 ‹James› looks an idea basis
18/07/2006 22:29:06 ‹James› talking of bases did that sip proxy work out?
18/07/2006 22:29:23 * elperepat is connected
18/07/2006 22:29:46 ‹Gregg› It's on my immediate to-do list. I've done a once over of the code and am pretty convinced that I can extend one of it's event listener classes
18/07/2006 22:29:56 ‹Gregg› That would make the resultign package very non-intrusive
18/07/2006 22:30:12 ‹Gregg› But, no--I've not yet got it hooked up and playing with it. Very soon though
18/07/2006 22:30:30 ‹James› sounds good
18/07/2006 22:30:50 ‹James› hi elperepat.
18/07/2006 22:31:11 ‹elperepat› Hi!
18/07/2006 22:33:04 ‹James› so what brings you here ;-) ?
18/07/2006 22:33:34 ‹James› not using TINIs fo HA are you?
18/07/2006 22:33:38 ‹elperepat› xAP I guess ;-) I'm quite new to all this and still try to find out if it's what I want
18/07/2006 22:33:49 ‹elperepat› That's on the todo list
18/07/2006 22:34:34 ‹James› well if you want to interconnect ha items xAP shoul d do pretty much all you need
18/07/2006 22:34:48 ‹James› simple to do too as it's just udp
18/07/2006 22:36:22 ‹elperepat› I also looked a xpl, but I haven't seen and side-by-side comaprison. I mainly want to do BSC-kind of stuff. Which would be more appropriate?
18/07/2006 22:37:01 ‹kevint› well of course we are biased ;)
18/07/2006 22:38:15 ‹elperepat› of course! I guess I'll try xAP and see if it works.
18/07/2006 22:38:15 ‹James› well trying to be impartial. xAP and xPL are very similar in concept and technology. It's really the schemas whre the differences are. xPL tend to have more device specific schemas whre as with xAP we try to make more generic schemas like BSC
18/07/2006 22:38:52 ‹elperepat› ok.. thanks!
18/07/2006 22:38:58 ‹James› also xAP has a UID, which is a bit like a MAC address, which for small memory devices helps them monitor and keep track on who is who
18/07/2006 22:39:18 ‹James› xAP and xpl whre once the same project
18/07/2006 22:39:46 ‹elperepat› I'll re-read the BSC schema again. is V1.3 still up-to-date? UID: that's good as I plan to make small devices too.
18/07/2006 22:40:01 ‹James› yes 1.3 is the latest
18/07/2006 22:40:08 * kevint disconnected (timeout)
18/07/2006 22:40:09 ‹elperepat› ok
18/07/2006 22:40:46 ‹James› BSC is currently used in misterhouse, homeseer, xap floorplan, bsc mapper, xap labs simulation software and a few others
18/07/2006 22:41:16 ‹James› it does pretty much all you need for simple devcie control which tbh is what most HA is about
18/07/2006 22:41:27 ‹elperepat› My first application will be the software for the motorized window blinds I just made. Nothing fancy, only tilting of cheap PVC horizontal blinds, but I want to make them automatic.
18/07/2006 22:42:11 * kevint disconnected (timeout)
18/07/2006 22:42:17 ‹James› a simple bsc device with a level % used to specify the tilt, or just use state=on or off to say open closed
18/07/2006 22:43:17 ‹elperepat› Is there any projects out there with source code availbale made in java? I'll probably use the tini. Starting out is always difficult, more over in java, in which I have little practice.
18/07/2006 22:43:32 ‹elperepat› yes. probably a %, as I have 4 possible positions.
18/07/2006 22:44:04 ‹James› Gregg, you're a java guy ;-)
18/07/2006 22:44:33 ‹James› some java things here - http://patrick.lidstone.net/haweb/java.htm
18/07/2006 22:44:52 ‹James› also http://groups.yahoo.com/group/xap_automation/ is a good place to join :-)
18/07/2006 22:45:01 ‹Gregg› I was trying to avoid answering as the only xAP java work was just enough for the VR app. I think that Patrick's libs would be more complete. That's what I'll be looking at to support the SIP app
18/07/2006 22:45:13 ‹James› k
18/07/2006 22:45:24 ‹James› :$ i 'll keep quite next time
18/07/2006 22:45:44 ‹Gregg› Next time, I'll hopefully have something useful to say :)
18/07/2006 22:46:01 ‹elperepat› I'm a member there, just didn't searched fully the archives yet
18/07/2006 22:47:58 ‹James› ok, i'm not how many java related comments there are though. most has been windows, C, perl or php to date
18/07/2006 22:51:02 ‹kevint› Well this has gone pretty well for an hours chat ;)
18/07/2006 22:51:19 ‹James› depends on the time zone
18/07/2006 22:52:24 ‹James› you finished packing yet?
18/07/2006 22:53:04 ‹kevint› well yes apart from the ipod
18/07/2006 22:53:38 ‹kevint› wife's bag is still empty and she started before me
18/07/2006 22:54:18 ‹James› so all is normal again
18/07/2006 22:54:29 ‹kevint› indeed
18/07/2006 22:55:44 * kevint disconnected (timeout)
18/07/2006 22:58:28 ‹Gregg› James--has there been any discussion about binding a hub or app to either a specific ethernet interface or a subnet/IP address?
18/07/2006 22:59:18 ‹Gregg› I was quickly looking at the obvious config settings for a few and didn't see anything.
18/07/2006 22:59:26 ‹James› the xFx apps can do this
18/07/2006 22:59:42 ‹Gregg› so, it's purely elective
18/07/2006 22:59:48 ‹James› mine don't currently. nned to add code to the intranet ocx
18/07/2006 23:00:14 ‹James› yep its a installing config thing
18/07/2006 23:01:01 ‹Gregg› ok--thanks for the info
18/07/2006 23:01:25 * pbaz disconnected (timeout)
18/07/2006 23:01:55 ‹James› and if you need inter network routing thre is the xserver on mi4 that does that. Patrick has a C app that routes too
18/07/2006 23:02:52 ‹Gregg› don't need that yet; but, had been thinking about segmenting my xAP and xPL traffic into a separate VLAN.
18/07/2006 23:02:56 ‹James› they both change the network address in the UID to reflect the different networks
18/07/2006 23:03:16 ‹Gregg› ahh--good to know; thanks
18/07/2006 23:03:28 ‹James› that woul dhelp reduce the broadcasts then
18/07/2006 23:03:45 ‹James› not many houses have managed switches though!
18/07/2006 23:03:52 ‹Gregg› and, more importantly, the likelihood of collissions
18/07/2006 23:04:09 ‹Gregg› mine has 3 managed switches in it
18/07/2006 23:04:31 ‹James› well the highest xAP rate i've ever seen is 3400 a min so event that isn't much
18/07/2006 23:04:55 ‹James› 3??? how big is your network! i'm just ona 16 way netgear
18/07/2006 23:04:57 ‹elperepat› oh, maybe and one more question for now
18/07/2006 23:05:06 ‹James› fire away
18/07/2006 23:05:06 ‹elperepat› when you have a second
18/07/2006 23:05:07 ‹Gregg› I'm more concerned about the combination of all traffic and the possibility of collision
18/07/2006 23:05:20 * kevint is connected
18/07/2006 23:05:32 ‹James› you're a cisco guy arnt you!
18/07/2006 23:05:43 ‹Gregg› yep and procurve
18/07/2006 23:05:59 ‹James› all cisco people sound alike ;-)
18/07/2006 23:06:20 ‹James› ( ina good way)
18/07/2006 23:06:40 ‹Gregg› you mean that "blinky light" ? ;)
18/07/2006 23:07:09 ‹James› that's you're procurve side coming out
18/07/2006 23:08:01 ‹elperepat› How would it be better to pass xap to tini and then to 1-wire? I was thinking of having several small applications running on the tini each of which would be "independant" units on xAP. IS it ok or would it be better to give direct access to the 1-wire network to xAP?
18/07/2006 23:08:29 ‹elperepat› and make the tini a "dumb" router
18/07/2006 23:08:54 ‹elperepat› bridge?
18/07/2006 23:09:14 ‹James› you can do it either way, dumb routers are fine but one of the concepts of xAP is to distribute logic rather than have a central brain
18/07/2006 23:09:21 ‹Gregg› why not make it smarter? like determine when a temperature change exists and reporting that as an event rather than just routine polling?
18/07/2006 23:09:51 ‹kevint› There are lots of advantages of xap enabling your tinis rather than relying on PC's to do most of the work
18/07/2006 23:10:21 ‹elperepat› ok, so that way, it would be transparent for the end-user if it is 1-wire or not... good. Thanks
18/07/2006 23:10:38 ‹kevint› PC's consume lots of electricity and are seen to be less reliable in a 24/7 situation
18/07/2006 23:11:47 ‹James› that works very nicely for BSC so external devices jsut get a standard set of info with the translation work being doing by the tini. KevinH does this kind of thing with the rabbit based xAP CBus connector
18/07/2006 23:12:12 ‹elperepat› yes, but I have a few running 24/7 so it's not a big deal but Tini is better, I see. It's also more complicated to program though...
18/07/2006 23:13:15 ‹James› don't know if you've seenn it - http://www.phaedrusltd.com/pages/html/netiom.html - is a pic based xAP BSC io board which could work very nicly with a tini onewire
18/07/2006 23:15:29 ‹James› i use a pc 24/7 as a controller ( Floorplan) and it's never failed for OS/PC type reasons I do think they are pretty reliable now. their flaw is you can run lots on them and the they break especially when you fiddle witht them ;-)
18/07/2006 23:17:05 ‹elperepat› wow, I didn't see this (netiom) Quite expensive though, but great to easily do I/O. I'll probably end up doing something similar with tini and PICs later on, but it's good to know it exists.
18/07/2006 23:17:27 * Gregg quit
18/07/2006 23:18:12 * kevint disconnected (timeout)
18/07/2006 23:18:16 ‹James› well it's pretty cheap for a produced network io unit, certainly a huge amount cheaper than other PLC untis
18/07/2006 23:18:58 ‹James› i've got one here and it's totally reliable
18/07/2006 23:19:06 ‹elperepat› yes, but diy is fun too ;-) longer dev period though
18/07/2006 23:19:36 ‹elperepat› that's a good point. I would base security and such on a home-made board for the first 3-4 months ...
18/07/2006 23:19:45 ‹James› yep, although software diy is better than hardware diy, less chance of solder burns
18/07/2006 23:20:37 ‹elperepat› I don't have too much problem with the hardware as it's my main job ;-) software isn't
18/07/2006 23:21:31 ‹James› ah, i'm the other way around ;-)
18/07/2006 23:21:48 ‹James› Well i have to go i'm afraid. We do these chats every week 9pm bst tuesday, so hopefully see you next week?
18/07/2006 23:21:57 ‹elperepat› I have to go for now. Is this chat always opened?
18/07/2006 23:21:59 ‹elperepat› ;-)
18/07/2006 23:22:19 ‹elperepat› I'll certainly try Thanks for your help!
18/07/2006 23:22:33 ‹James› np. Good luck with the project
18/07/2006 23:22:38 ‹James› bfn
18/07/2006 23:22:48 ‹elperepat› bye